Akshatha Veerendra: 0:00

I work for a company called Colliers International as an associate director and I've been there for nearly six months now. It's very varied and this is what I enjoy most about my job. Growing up, I really enjoyed my time in India. I love science. That's how my passion for sustainability nature grew. I applied for HSMP, which is Highly Skilled Migrant Programme. If you don't want to go the university route, there are other routes. You can look at internships, volunteering. I would say never listen to anyone who says you can't do something. I think everyone should do their bit and help reduce waste. Sustainability is not expensive. I hope I can make a difference in others' lives.

Darren Evans: 0:43

Hi and welcome to the Thriving Construction Podcast. Today we have got Axe Virandra with us. How are you doing, axe?

Akshatha Veerendra: 0:51

I'm good, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Darren Evans: 0:53

Great thanks for accepting the invitation to come on. Can you just give us a bit of an outline of what it is that you do and who you are?

Akshatha Veerendra: 1:01

Okay, yeah, so I work for a company called Colliers International currently and as an associate director, and I have been in this industry for nearly 20 years working with many different companies like Turner Townsend, jll, rps, and I work in energy and sustainability team, so our team is about 12 of us, and we offer services such as energy performance certificates and building certifications. Like bream, lead and in bream you have many different types of breams, all the way from domestic, non-domestic, commercial, international. Bremen news infrastructure.

Darren Evans: 1:49

So it goes on and on. So you have got a very grand title. I'm thinking, if I was 25 years old, listening to you saying that you're an associate director, I think, wow, that's a very grand title. I want to be like that one day. What does that actually mean and what does your day-to-day role look like?

Akshatha Veerendra: 2:07

It's a mix of everything. We have some days that can be very busy where we are at desk writing reports such as energy reports, sustainability reports for our clients. We may be modeling. Some days we use the software where we model buildings and we input data, so it can be different. And other days I'm out at on-site taking photographs, carrying out site visits, or I'm with the client at a meeting.

Darren Evans: 2:38

So it's very varied and this is what I enjoy most about my job, so it's not the same every day it's the variety that you enjoy the most good, and so I'm assuming that when you were younger, you wouldn't have imagined yourself doing this exact role, because it didn't exist, did it, you know, 20 years ago it didn't.

Akshatha Veerendra: 2:59

it didn't exist, it was. I was one of the first batches of you know we did environmental science, so this you know, our batch of the first batches of you know we did environmental science. So this you know, our batch was the first batch who did this course back then. So no, there was no internet, there was no environmental science as a course, so it was all you know new.

Darren Evans: 3:17

Interesting point there. I say that to my kids every now and again, that you know this was what happened before the internet, and they're like what?

Akshatha Veerendra: 3:24

What do you?

Darren Evans: 3:24

mean there was life before the internet. So life before the internet for you then, as a young child? Just paint that picture. What was that like for you, what was your family situation like your early years, and how do you think that might have led you to being so passionate and interested within buildings and sustainability, to being so passionate?

Akshatha Veerendra: 3:45

and interested within buildings and sustainability. Growing up, I think I really enjoyed my time in India. I was born in India in Karnataka estate, the place called Hubli, and it was really exciting growing up there because I was a very active kid. I was involved with a lot of activities in sports theatre, you know it could be any activity I would be there. So growing up was fun and I did my schooling in India and then I did my college at an all girls college called Mount Carmel, which is now open to men as well.

Darren Evans: 4:24

So it was an all girls college. It was an all girls school, all girls college. Oh, the now open to men as well, so it was an all girls.

Akshatha Veerendra: 4:26

It was an all girls school, all girls college oh, the school was all girls as well.

Akshatha Veerendra: 4:29

Yes, oh, wow, yeah so I've, you know, always been an all girls school and education. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but I've enjoyed my time. And then I was also part of girl guides in in school and then I went on to join National Cadet Corps, so that's NCC it's like a basic military and a part of the army. So I was trained in that, so that was very exciting. At what age was that? Yeah, I think that was in college, so it was 11th and 12th when I did here.

Darren Evans: 5:01

Okay, so that was kind of like the version of what we have in the UK the cadets.

Akshatha Veerendra: 5:06

Yes, yes exactly yeah, great, good.

Darren Evans: 5:09

so when you say that when you were younger you were into all different types of activities active in sports, what types of sports were your thing.

Akshatha Veerendra: 5:16

Sports, we had something called coco.

Darren Evans: 5:18

I've never heard of coco.

Akshatha Veerendra: 5:19

Coco is like you sit in a row and then one of you run and then you leave a kerchief and then someone gets it. So, yeah, that one. And badminton, I loved running, so and what else I think, just elocution, and speaking singing theatre, speaking singing theater. I also loved drawings. So, because I loved science and I was, you know, doing all these drawings for my record work, so that was, you know, I enjoyed doing that. So that's how my you know, passion for sustainability nature grew you could have been a singer then yes, I could, I could be.

Akshatha Veerendra: 6:01

It's almost like you know, you have the jack of all trades and master of none. So you know, but I did end up becoming master of science, so I did do my master of science.

Darren Evans: 6:12

I was going to say you've become a master at a number of things, but yeah, that's great. So what was home life like for you, and how do you think that that has led you to be interested in sustainability or construction?

Akshatha Veerendra: 6:26

I think at home it was very much, you know, academic kind of like. My dad was a GP, so he encouraged us to study a lot and, you know, read a lot and do all the things that can get you to be a good person of character and be disciplined. So that was how it was. And also, after my dad passed away, it was my mom who was a single parent. She raised me and my sister, who's now an architect as well, so she's in the same industry. She has her own company called Studio Foray, so you can check out. You know her projects are really exciting. They're all in india and bangalore, um, so yeah, they all you know, work in the same field. So it's interesting I love that.

Darren Evans: 7:16

So your parents were very um keen on instilling discipline, discipline yes academia yes, work yeah yeah and that's how I think.

Akshatha Veerendra: 7:27

Uh, I think it was a good mix. We also had a lot of fun. You know, I used to go with my dad, so when he used to go to the hospital, I used to go with him and see, um, how he used to work, interact with patients and all of that. So it was me little me growing up learning all of this. So, yeah, that's great and that's how.

Akshatha Veerendra: 7:47

Now I'm so excited that you know it's not just sustainability, we also work on health and well-being, which is the main aspect. So since after covid, it's become more intense. Everyone is talking about health and well-being.

Darren Evans: 8:00

So, yeah, that has added value to what we already do it must have been really exciting for you to go into a hospital and see what's going on and that you're there with your dad and showing you places that patients don't normally go yes that must have been really exciting yeah did it ever inspire you to look into medicine or anything like that?

Akshatha Veerendra: 8:18

medicine was one of the options, but I did choose sustainability in the end. Yeah, Cool.

Darren Evans: 8:23

What was it that drew you towards sustainability over medicine?

Akshatha Veerendra: 8:26

I think medicine is something which requires years of studies, years of practice, and my dad's students used to come home. They used to come to learn, take extra classes. They always told me don't do medicine, but it's more sort of I enjoy the outdoors as well, so I wanted to be more in connection with nature and I think it's more sort of I enjoy the outdoors as well, so I wanted to be more in connection with nature, and I think it's a good mix. Now, and for years I did think that did I make the right decision? Should I have gone into medicine or not? But I just feel, yes, it is the right decision you belong here in this industry and you love it.

Darren Evans: 9:03

I love it. Yes, good, good. One of the things that I've found over the years that not many people appreciate is the amount of languages that is spoken in india, and just the diversity of culture within the country is huge. Yes, can you talk me through what that looks like, how, how that shows up, maybe how many languages you speak too?

Akshatha Veerendra: 9:26

Yes, so there's so many languages. Just in Karnataka, which is southern India, we speak so many different languages. So I can speak English, obviously, in my school and college days. So French was one of the languages I took because I wanted to learn something new which is, you know, not spoken in India. So, yeah, french. And then Hindi is the national language, so I can speak quite well. And then Kannada is the state language. It's spelled with the K Kannada, not Canada. And then Thulu is my mother tongue, which I speak with my mom, my sister and my family, because even Thulu is my mother tongue, which I speak with my mom, my sister and my family, because even Thulu is spoken by very few people in India. It's spoken in a couple of places called Mangalore and Goa, so these two places in the coastal areas of India.

Darren Evans: 10:17

Wow, so I counted five.

Akshatha Veerendra: 10:20

Yes, and I can also understand a few other languages like Tamil, telugu, malayalam. They're all like regional languages and, yeah, and there's so many in the north, so, yeah, plenty.

Darren Evans: 10:33

What things do you think the Indian culture that you've experienced has been really beneficial for you since moving across to the UK? That you've either fused with other people's lives or fused in your own life to enhance your own well-being in living here in London?

Akshatha Veerendra: 10:53

I can only think of adding value. It's like you know, growing up, india has taught me so much more than what. The extra that I learned you know like be it languages or the culture or you know anything, the way we interact, the way we welcome people so all these things have helped me grow as a person and bring that here and, you know, share it with everyone here.

Darren Evans: 11:21

So that's what I think is so valuable I think that, um, it's, it's fascinating of how small the world is right now compared to what it was maybe a hundred years ago, through the way that we travel and the ease of access that we can just experience so many different perspectives and so many different um opportunities, opportunities to understand how other people live in different places across the world. So you moved across here to the UK and how old were you?

Akshatha Veerendra: 11:53

I think soon after my bachelor's I worked just for a year in India and then I moved here for my master's. Yeah, I did my master's from Edinburgh University in Scotland in ecology and management and that was a one year course and after that I started working in a lot of short term jobs because I had just graduated. So it was hard to find a permanent role and also I didn't have my driver's license back then. So it took me a year year nearly a year to get my theory and my practicals and I got my license. And during that period I was also volunteering for Friends of the Earth and Children's Society. I work with kids who are autistic and you know I used to spend time going out and doing some fun activities with them which are really memorable and they mean so much to me. With Friends of the Earth also, we visited schools where we engaged with them the students, staff and reducing to help reduce carbon emissions all of that. So yeah, it's been a long journey since I moved to UK.

Darren Evans: 13:03

What was the attraction to do your master's in the UK?

Akshatha Veerendra: 13:07

I think it was because I've I always was attracted, like you know, somehow I was more attracted to UK rather than I think it's because of the Britishers, you know, who came to India.

Akshatha Veerendra: 13:19

We have that history yeah um, so somehow UK seemed the right place, rather than us or any other place. So, yeah, it was. And also had my one of my cousin who was in uk for quite a long time, who moved back to india, and my dad was also going to do his master's here, um, but, um, he passed away. So it was something that I wanted to. Then, do you know, come here. And yeah. So it was something that I wanted to. Then, do you know, come here. And yeah. So it was very simple for me to make a decision because, yeah, it was UK that I wanted to come to.

Darren Evans: 13:53

And few people know that actually studying in the UK and coming from the country of India, as an example, it's really quite expensive, the amount of money that universities charge international students is horrendous yes, it is true.

Akshatha Veerendra: 14:10

I mean, it is so expensive.

Darren Evans: 14:12

So so I think the reason I mentioned that is because my my father is um a lecturer at university in Bristol and when he tells me how it is there, the course that he's doing, he gets a lot of people coming to his course from China, and so when he tells me the amount of money that they get charged, I think, well, where's the thought that goes behind that? And I guess the reason I've said that is because sometimes people can think that it's really easy for someone to come across to England to do a course or to start a job, but actually the sacrifice that lots of families make are really significant.

Akshatha Veerendra: 14:50

Yes, that's true, and it takes a lot, not just in terms of finance, but also a lot more in terms of efforts and exams that you have to give and plan things.

Darren Evans: 15:02

So it's a whole, it's a big thing, absolutely is there anything that that you can, any light that you can shed on your own experience of transitioning from education in india to education here? And then some of the other sacrifices and and and effort I don't know, maybe I say kind of pain almost as well that you would have had to go through?

Akshatha Veerendra: 15:26

Yes, because it takes a lot of effort. You have to pass some exams, you have to do your IELTS, which is your English language speaking, writing abilities, so you are tested on all of that and then you apply for I think about three universities and then you wait to hear from them. And once you do get a conditional or unconditional offer, then you, you know, you prepare for it. And then when I did move to UK, I was on the Fresh Talent Scotland scheme, so which allowed me to work for two years just after my master's. So that two years was very important and it helped me to get that experience, you know, work experience, because otherwise it's just one year you come, you study and then it becomes difficult.

Akshatha Veerendra: 16:18

So I had the two years and after that two years I applied for HSMP, which is Highly Skilled Migrant Program, so it is a program. Hsmp, which is highly skilled migrant program, so it is a program again, which gives you points based on your age, your skills, your English, your salary and a lot of other things. So it's a lot of stress and pressure which you know you have to go through. So, and then I got three years and then I had to extend to another two years, which is again based on the HSMP point system. So then this is how it works. So if you're an outsider and you come to UK, then you need to make sure that you are on track, because you know there are other ways where companies can sponsor you when you come from India. But I didn't take that route, so that's how you know. I stayed here and I continue, and I was to some extent fortunate that I did find roles, one after the other, and the kind of roles that I wanted.

Darren Evans: 17:16

And what was the? What was the support that you received from your parents?

Akshatha Veerendra: 17:19

It was just my mum actually, because by then I lost my dad when I was 16, when I was in the college. So it was my mom and my family. They were always there to support me. So that way, the emotional support and all the hard work we had to do, and yeah, so it was a phase. But every phase you know it can be difficult and you go to the next phase and then you feel you know that phase has gone, you're on to new challenges.

Darren Evans: 17:46

So that's how life is so it rolls that way for sure, yes so what advice would you give to your younger self starting out on this journey of? Yeah going to the uk to do a master's now that you're quite a few years down the line yes and the experience that you've got, what advice would you give?

Akshatha Veerendra: 18:05

I wouldn't want to change much because it was good the way it was and everything that I did was perfect. All the mistakes I did yes, I did, but I learned from them and so I wouldn't want to change. But I would say that maybe I should have done a bit more of theater and a bit more of sports, because that kind of helps you build your confidence more in terms of working in a team or, you know, you learn more sort of teamwork and leadership. So, yeah, I wish I did more of that.

Darren Evans: 18:37

So listening to you speak there, it reminds me of this concept called flow state, oh, yes, there. It reminds me of this concept called flow state, oh yes, so when you're in a flow state, things as, as the word suggests, flow it comes out. Time passes really quickly, yeah, productivity is really really high, you feel really really good, and we're constantly striving for this state of flow to be in, and other things can come in or do come in on a frequent basis to break our state of flow. But what most people don't understand is having a hobby that you really like sport, something musical, something dramatic, something artistic, whatever it is. It enables you to get in that state of flow, which then helps you when you are then working to get into a state of flow, helps you when you are then working to get into a state of flow.

Darren Evans: 19:28

So flow, whether you're in a state of play is is just as good as flow when you're in a state of work yeah so it's interesting that you make that comment of advice that you'd give to your previous self is get involved in this stuff because it's going to help your, your ability to get into a state of flow yeah, because I was so active and I did lots of other activities.

Akshatha Veerendra: 19:47

I was in theater as well, but I wish I did more of it. So just a little bit more. But I know I was very. I took the usual academic route but, yeah, I think it helps yeah, as an all-rounder it helps too?

Darren Evans: 19:59

definitely, yeah, and I think that that's one of the reason I'm mentioning it is because that's one of the reasons I'm mentioning it is because that's one of the things that I'm consistently trying to tell the people that work for me, as well as my children, is that you need these periods of time where you're involved in a state of flow with something else that you enjoy, that you're not paid to do, and actually what that does is that helps you to be more productive in the stuff that you are paid to do and it increases the enjoyment that you get from that as well as it enables you just to increase that flow state that you get, but from a different activity.

Darren Evans: 20:35

So getting that state of flow in play super, super important. Yeah, I love that Good good. I love that Good good. So is there anything that you would suggest that someone listening to this podcast now, in your position, just come across from a different country in this country? Is there anything that you would suggest would be beneficial for them to keep in mind as they're on their own journey?

Akshatha Veerendra: 21:01

Yes, sure, I think the first thing is you should be clear about what you want to do. If you are not sure, then it helps to talk to people, and to talk to people who are doing what you have an interest in and learn about their day-to-day activities. What are the pros and cons of being in that field and maybe carrying out some training? I mean, if you don't want to go the university route, there are other routes. You can look at internships, volunteering. If it's not a paid tier, you can look at volunteering. And also there are courses like free courses, online. Plenty of them, plenty of resources. You know from when I started. Like you know, now you have YouTube, you have Coursera. There's a website where you can do different courses for free and then for the certification, I think, you pay a small amount. So that's good, that can help you and then just be open about learning different things. You know interacting with others, collaborating different things. You know interacting with others, collaborating. So, yeah, I think for anyone new, I would say never listen to anyone who says you can't do something. Go for it with all your passion, all your hard work, give it 100%, your heart on the table, and then you know they should just keep going and that's how you know everyone can progress in their life. I think that's great advice. Thanks, axe, that's great advice.

Akshatha Veerendra: 22:48

What is Gifts? And we're working with this charity called Over the Wall, otw. So OTW is a UK-based charity who work with children and young people with health challenges and disabilities. So what they do is they offer space for them to build their confidence, make friendships and carry out like fun activities and give them the space to do all of that. And we are looking at reducing carbon emissions for their schools where you know where, the place where they carry out these activities and also looking at long-term sustainability for them net zero carbon and, yeah, so which? Anything which can help in the long-term renewable technologies sustainability, looking at energy, water, waste, all of that.

Akshatha Veerendra: 23:37

So, yeah, it's a great period. I also enjoyed in the past visiting a very prestigious school in the UK called Harrowboy School, where I spoke about climate change to the children there, which was like back-to-back talk, and there was the school and the staff. They were so welcoming. Yeah, I really enjoyed doing that. So, yeah, more of charity and anything that you can give make a better life for others, make it a bit more easier for others. That's really interesting. There's also the consultancy side where we are very busy. We're working on a number of projects, um be it energy sustainability, building certification. So, yeah, it's all exciting period it's all good for you at the moment.

Darren Evans: 24:22

That's good. There's two things to mention. One of them is that you enjoy going out and helping within the community and within, trying to help younger people capture a passion or get a vision of what they can do in the future. And the second thing I think is interesting as well is that children growing up now are far more conscious, aware and interested in the state of the environment. Oh yes, conscious, aware and interested in the state of the environment. Oh yes, potentially the state of the building environment, although I think that that can, that that can increase than what it was, at least when I was younger anyway yes, absolutely.

Akshatha Veerendra: 25:00

I think the small resources they have everything that you know. They can learn, they can organize their own camps. They can do a lot more than we did in the past.

Darren Evans: 25:11

For sure. So that's great that you're able to do that Good. What is it that you hope will be more common in the future within the built environment?

Akshatha Veerendra: 25:22

The circular economy, which is a great concept. So circular economy has been, it's existed for several years and it has its roots back in the 19th century when, I believe, a group of British textile weavers were against the introduction of these machines because they believed that these machines could replace their jobs. So they argued that the machines could be used for recycling instead of creating materials from scratch.

Darren Evans: 25:54

Interesting.

Akshatha Veerendra: 25:54

So that's how this whole concept of circular economy arose, and it took nearly 200 years for it to evolve to what it is now. So what it means is circular economy is just making sure that the products last longer with, and they emit, zero waste, zero emissions. So it's like kind of like using natural resources the least possible natural resources for our economic growth. So, yeah, I think even in our day-to-day life we see that we wish that. You know some of our favorite products. We wish it lasted a little longer or we could repair it. So that should become the norm and more and more. I mean it is becoming more and more mainstream. But I think it would be hard to adopt circularity in you know with entirely, because it will lead to some waste or, you know, some emissions. But that's when you have to make sure that circularity is factored into the product design and the waste is not thought like an afterthought, so waste is looked into first. So that's why circularity should be more common and people should use it more.

Darren Evans: 27:09

Interesting because along with that also comes the demand of the, of the customer, so thinking about things outside of the built environment yes and if you look into an area where there is a huge amount of waste and a huge amount of turnover from product something like a, a mobile phone or a or a computer, yes, exactly so at the moment, um pcs are being replaced at a really really like astronomically quick rate, because the demand from the software is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

Darren Evans: 27:46

Yes, and so, instead of the software manufacturers making their software more efficient in terms of how they run, they're not worrying about that because they think, well, someone's going to change their pc and the performance of the pc is just going to increase. So I don't need to worry about the efficiency of my software being run on the computer, because someone else is just going to buy another computer anyway yes, yeah, so, absolutely so.

Akshatha Veerendra: 28:11

These things need to be looked at. So it's e-waste plastic waste single-use plastics. So these are some of the things that needs more research and, you know, finding ways, long-term solutions really, because they are, like you know, the most important things which don't have a solution yet, although they are getting there, but I think it's going to take time and I think everyone should do their bit and help reduce waste.

Darren Evans: 28:40

So, yeah, the bit that you mentioned about everyone doing their bit, I think is super important. So I'll give an example that happened to me not too long ago. My uh daughter has got a dressing table or a makeup table and the stool that goes in front of that got broken. I won't reveal how it got broken because it's still a point of contention in my home. So it got broken and one of my children said, oh, it needs to be thrown away, it's broken. And I said it doesn't need to be thrown away, I can fix it. And they're like no know, you can't fix it, it's broken. The leg's broken, look, oh.

Darren Evans: 29:18

And yes it was broken but I could fix it, and so one day she wouldn't she went out and I fixed it and took it back, and I put it back into a state that was far better than it was before she brought it to me broken, and she was absolutely amazed with it. So I think that's just one example of exactly tiny things that we can individually do to make a difference in the concept of the circle economy that you're talking about and also, growing up I did learn this is interesting.

Akshatha Veerendra: 29:40

I learned stitching clothes, so even now I have a machine where I can use it to just like do small stitches or if something is torn or if you want to make a bag out of a fabric. So all those things are, like you know, life skills, which I think is great. You need to learn these things to be to make um products last longer definitely.

Darren Evans: 30:04

It's a simple thing like sewing a button on a shirt or on a blouse or on some trousers, or fixing a clasp or an item of clothing. It doesn't necessarily need to be thrown away. You could just repair it and have fun building the skills to repair it, couldn't you?

Akshatha Veerendra: 30:20

Yes, yes, absolutely Love that Good.

Darren Evans: 30:23

Well, actually it feels like at the moment we are in a good position to go to the demolition zone. Are you ready?

Akshatha Veerendra: 30:28

Okay, yes, let's do it. Great to go to the demolition zone.

Darren Evans: 30:31

Are you ready? Okay, let's do it. Great. So now, axe, we are in the demolition zone and you have created this, this thing here. And how would I, how would I describe it? It looks like it's got a very wide and a flat base yes, I was just trying to create.

Akshatha Veerendra: 30:47

I can't. I think you can guess it's a pound sign. Yes, the myth that I have is that sustainability is expensive. So sustainability is not expensive. There are instances where the investments are large, but when you look at the bigger picture, you see there's economic growth, there's plenty of jobs created. So, yeah, really, sustainability is not expensive. And when you look, look, there's a positive correlation between a company's ESG ratings and the performance management team's performance. So they're, you know, you're not compromising on the return. So, even in our daily lives, sustainability like cruising or, you know, taking, walking or taking your bike instead of driving it reduces pollution and lots of other good things, but also it does good to your own health because you're walking, which is positive. It's not expensive. So, yeah, that's the myth.

Darren Evans: 31:44

Well, I think you need to destroy that myth. With a right jab, the pain sign falls, falls down. That's been created by the blocks. Thanks, ax, that was awesome thank you.

Akshatha Veerendra: 31:55

Thank you for having me. I loved.

Darren Evans: 31:57

Um, yeah, I love the way that you did that.

Akshatha Veerendra: 31:59

Yes, just spontaneous, it looked it yes, because I didn't think about this. I just thought, okay, this would be the right punch, just get rid of it.

Darren Evans: 32:08

Punch that, punch that down. Love it good. It's been great meeting with you thank you.

Akshatha Veerendra: 32:12

Thank you so much for having me, and it's been a pleasure being here today appreciate your time.

Darren Evans: 32:17

Just one last question before we go, maybe a tricky one. Okay, may not be, you may find it easy. So the last question, the parting question, is what one piece of advice did you give to someone that's outside of the construction industry that will make a difference to the built environment?

Akshatha Veerendra: 32:36

It would be, I would say, if they are outside the industry and if they are buying a product or something, just being conscious about what they buy, whether it's going to last long, whether it's repairable, from where is it transported, you know, these things matter. So in their own lives, they can make a difference by not being in the construction industry but still taking that one step in making the right choices.

Darren Evans: 33:02

Fantastic advice, love it, thank you. Thanks again.

Akshatha Veerendra: 33:05

Thank you.

Darren Evans: 33:16

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