Where were you brought up? Were you brought up in the UK? I was in, well, Portsmouth direction, my mum and my dad had a sort of small holding farm near Winchester. So split my time between Portsmouth for schooling and weekends on the farm really, which was quite a nice way to grow up. And sustainability is important to you?

Massively important to me. I didn't really realize it until I was probably in my third year of university and I started to go, right, what am I going to do? And I wanted to make a difference. And all I wanted to spend my time kind of doing work wise was being able to look back and say it was worth it.

And especially when. It became even more important because I wasn't the stay at home parent and I did leave her and go to work. I needed that kind of almost justification to myself for why I was going back to work and being able to say to her I'm doing something to help. Reduce emissions, help with climate change, help sustainability, help with your future, really made it [00:01:00] easier.

Just one of the things that's intriguing me is that the concept of a stay at home dad with a full time mum out working. And the reason that that intrigues me is because that's non standard. The standard thing is the dad goes out to work, the mum predominantly is the caregiver at home. How did that conversation come about?

Start or where did that start with you and your husband? So I were we were quite young when that conversation started I was actually in a bit of a motorbike crash when I was 21 and got quite a rare pain condition It's all to do with my brain. We kind of knew that I wasn't going to be able to to stay at home It was just something we always So I had no choice but to be the one to go to work.

So as we were kind of, as I got pregnant and getting closer to the birth, the reality started hitting us that this is what we're going to do. Yeah, it was probably quite difficult for my husband who, suddenly found himself in quite a mother centric world, which, you know, is when you've got newborn [00:02:00] babies, going to groups where he was the only dad, you know, all the conversations about baby help when they're newborn is written towards mothers.

And yeah, he had quite a steep. And I did as well because I don't think anything prepares you, whether you're a mum or a dad for going back to work after you've had a child. And yeah, quite, quite a steep learning curve for us both. I've not found anything prepares you to have actually have a child. No, it definitely doesn't.

Nothing prepares you for your changing mindset. I was very driven even before I had a child. Since having her, like the idea of working to make a difference is just taking on a whole new meaning. I'm not just working for a better future. I'm working for her future so that she's got a more stable environment as she grows up.

And that's one of the biggest drivers that I think I've ever had. So it's like it's got personal for you. It has definitely got personal for me. And I think being able to. Make this difference in a company like [00:03:00] Beamer, where I've got flexibility, CEOs, she's got two young children herself and she's very like family orientated as well.

So being able to be in that environment where I'm supported as a mother, but making a huge difference to, you know, 200 odd member companies to become more sustainable. It's just, it's worked out quite well. How do you feel supported then in your company? So I think having a CEO who has two young kids herself, and there are several of us who actually have.

Having that flexibility for her to be like, you know, let's change the world. Let's make it more sustainable. Let's do what we can to support our members. But changing the world only happens if you're stable and happy at home. So being told, you know, my daughter does ballet on a Friday morning. Being told, Oh, don't go miss it.

Just go. Don't worry about work. Just go see her do ballet. To be told it's okay, you can work at home. And if you want to take that time, Just go play with her, go hug her, if she's ill and you [00:04:00] want to focus on her, like that's 100 percent where your focus should be and that's sort of the ethos of the company, which is amazing.

Sounds like your CEO is removing the guilt from being a parent and also loving your job. I would definitely say so. Yeah, she's done an absolute brilliant job. Job at doing that. And she's relatively new CEO to our company as well. And previously did the role that I'm doing. So not only is she got this amazing culture going on within Bima, but she's also quite passionate about net zero and making sure that we all achieve it.

And she's a real scientific, we'll support her of a scientific net zero and believes that we can do it. So it's quite a, a nice sort of. Culture and environment to find yourself working in what attributes do you think that she has that enables this and fosters this change in culture. So I would definitely say that empathy has to be one of them.

And one thing you learn quite quickly when you become a parent is [00:05:00] empathy. So having that that empathy and the flexibility. Mindset that she has has been quite, quite key and she's quite an authoritative person and it took me quite a long time, but you know, being authoritative is about caring about your own needs, but also caring about the needs of others and she really does care about the needs of others while she's sort of running.

This, this big trade association, you've got quite, quite a few members. It's, yeah, it's quite inspiring, really. How long has she been in post? Oh, maybe a year and a half, a year. Okay. Yeah. And it sounds like already making an impact. Making a huge impact. In fact, she was supposed to start a bit earlier than a year, but she herself felt pregnant.

And so they waited for her to come back off maternity leave so that she could pick up the role. Just before she went on maternity leave, I joined BMO and she gave me a call and just said, I will never ask you to put the work and the company first. Your family will always come first. All I can ask is that whilst you're sort of taking care of your family, whilst you're [00:06:00] being a mom, whilst you're growing, do the best that you can for our members.

And that's certainly what we've done. It's created quite a lot of loyalty, I guess. I love that, I love that. And I think that she's right. My personal opinion is very much in line with that. And that's what we do in our organization, because I really feel that. When you pass, not wanting to get morbid, but when you pass away, it's your family and those that are closest to you that really will feel that loss and will mourn that it's not the people that are your clients or your work colleagues that will do that.

And I think that sometimes it's easy to give our family the worst of us and give our colleagues and our clients the best of us when it definitely needs to be the other way around. Definitely. And also once you get that balance right, and I will say I've not always had that balance. Once you get that balance right, your own mindset change, so you become less susceptible to burnouts.

You are able to prioritise and pace yourself a bit better. And that in turn results in better work. It [00:07:00] results in better communication. It results in sort of better purpose. And the better purpose you have, the I feel that you do. What is it that BEMA does? So BEMA is a trade association. They have members who are manufacturers of electrification technologies.

So that is, can I rewrite that? Of course, yeah. So I've got to make sure I get the line right. So BEMA is the trade association for manufacturers of electro technical technologies. Products and solutions. So our members, they manufacture the infrastructure that goes into buildings, transport and electricity grid to enable decarbonisation and ultimately electrification.

And what does it actually stand for? The is it an acronym? It is an acronym, and I don't know the answer to that. Well, we can skip that because I don't know that one either. And so how long, how long have they been going? So we'll actually, I'm going for 100 years in next year. So 1905. Was when [00:08:00] we started.

Okay. And so what's its, and this is gonna sound like a really DAF question, but what's its primary objective? So, primary objective would be to enable a level playing field for electrification. What does, what does that mean? So I'm, I'm 18, 19 years old, and I'm hearing what you're saying, but I'm struggling to understand how that relates to my world.

So in order to meet net zero. We are going to have to decarbonize our homes, we're gonna have to decarbonize our transport, and we're gonna have to make sure that we've really got enough electricity capacity to enable us to, to do that because although we'll be looking at multiple different energy types when it comes to, to net zero electrification has been proven as probably main way forward, especially for, for homes.

So if we are looking at you being a a 17, 18-year-old. By the time you're my age, so that's, that's early 30s, by the time you are certainly in your, your 40s or 50s, the world is going to look quite different. And the world has to [00:09:00] look different because to meet net zero, we can't keep burning fossil fuels.

So we're starting looking at what do we do to decarbonize the homes and transports we live in. Whilst giving you, the consumer, be you 17 year old boy or yourself, giving you choice. So how do we make it affordable? How do we make it timely? And how do we give you options so that you can decarbonise your homes in the best way that suits you?

How do we create a level playing field so that as many solutions can be presented to you as possible? And then you can pick what ultimately suits your home and lifestyle or your travel needs best. I love that. So what you're saying here is that I still have. I still can keep my demand where my demand is.

So I've got my TV and PlayStation and computer and all the other bits and pieces. And I can still reduce my carbon emissions. If you go down the electrification route, then. And definitely if you're looking at perhaps moving from a fossil fuel system to an electric one, [00:10:00] from a combustion car to an electric car, you can definitely still reduce your emissions that way.

I think trying to, this is what our members do, they develop those solutions that enable you to do it, so EV charging points, different electric heating and renewable heating technologies, ventilation, smart controls. They're really trying to make sure that you have. As much of a comfortable transition as possible, so that when we become net zero, you don't feel like you've missed out.

I'm not saying that that means we're going to have to do everything exactly the way that we're doing now. There are likely to be behavioral changes. Looking at on peak, off peak energy use. But we're also pushing to try and make sure that those behavioral changes actually benefit to you. So let's make off peak energy cheaper.

So you benefit in your wallet benefits if you decide to use energy that's not a peak time that enables grid flexibility that enables us to reduce peak demand and to sort of takes off some of the pressure that the electricity grid may feel [00:11:00] we're potentially by 2035 looking at 70 percent increase in electricity demand in the UK.

Which is a staggering amount if you think about the amount we're going to have to actually develop the electricity grid to enable that additional capacity, if you think about all the products that are going to be created to enable you to use that electricity for your heat, for your transport, for your ensuring air quality, whatever that may be.

That's a huge jump. That's that's huge. 10 years, nearly. We're nearly in 2025 and 10 years in this industry really is a blink of an eye. Definitely. And where is that increase coming from? The increased demand here. So that's coming from homes electrifying. It's coming from transport, electrifying and also industry electrifying as well.

We sort of forget that whilst we are trying to ask for more electrification products, we're asking manufacturers to produce more. We're also asking them to cut their own emissions, so they're probably going to have to look at electrifying quite a lot of their [00:12:00] processes as well, and that will create demand on the grid.

Who do you think is one standout organization that you feel is leading the way in this area? Well, I'm not sure I'm allowed to pick favorites of members. I mean, I'll come and rephrase the question. Can you give me an example of an area where this is working well? So that's quite a difficult one to answer at the moment.

Because of the political place that we find ourselves in. So you're talking political as in the government, or you're talking political as in your customers and how The government. Okay. Yeah. So I would say that our members are doing an amazing job to realize that this increase in demand is coming. And they're really starting to ramp up their own productions in response.

They want to be able to provide us. With the products and solutions we need to electrify, but they're doing that around the world. They're producing products that are going to the EU that are going, you know, sometimes to [00:13:00] America to further out and in the UK, we're not giving the signals of certainty.

that manufacturers need to see to heavily invest or drive that some of that capacity to the UK market. That is going to change. So we're seeing a lot of work from Ofgem to ensure that the electricity grid is, has enough capacity and that it's sustainable as it, as it grows. And we're also seeing the likes of the future home standards, which the consultation closed earlier this year.

I think they had quite a few responses. So We're not likely to see something tomorrow, but if that comes through, that's going to do an amazing job at driving electrification in Newbuild. And of course, as we produce more homes that are electrified, that then means that we need to produce more capacity through the grid.

So that's where the grid investment goes. And, you know, we're sort of on the Newbuild side, especially, we're really starting to make. Waves were starting to see the change when I first started out in this industry fresh from [00:14:00] university, I would say. So it was a bit of a shock. What was shocking for you? I have to say, I think I had an idea in my head of what an industry Would be like, and it's probably quite typical of what they teach you at university coming into construction, which is a bit bolder.

It's quite fast paced, but hasn't really changed too much. And I joined hadn't really changed that much. And suddenly we were having these conversations that were very, like almost raw in a way. Like when you're taught this through university, it's perhaps a bit more, a bit more professional. Your word pressure is not the right word.

Sanitized. Yeah, that might be it, actually. I will say I very quickly fell in love with the specification market, and I actually quite love the, like, ethos behind it. I found it quite exciting. But I also found that it was quite, at the time, static. I remember when the first future home standards consultation came out in 2019, I believe it was, and I was going to all these companies and saying, [00:15:00] Here's what it says.

Electrification, it's saying by 2025, like, fossil fuels will no longer be the main solution for new built homes. And so many people said to me, no, they won't do it. They won't do it. Nope, they won't do it. We don't need to have this conversation. And now look at us, and that was five years ago. So, what was quite a static industry, where we were just talking about compliance, cost, fit within the standard footprint.

Within the space of the sort of five, six years I was at my previous company, suddenly shifted. Suddenly the sustainability element started coming in. We started talking about embodied carbon. We started talking about sustainability requirements for suppliers. And these were conversations that, you know, three, four, five years.

I very rarely heard. Talk to me about embodied carbon. Just what is it? Let me rephrase that question. What is embodied carbon? So it depends whether you're looking from a product or project perspective. [00:16:00] So let's take products first. If you're looking at standards, lifecycle assessments is what you'd call your A1 to A3 stages, a cradle to gate, raw material extraction to being manufactured and then sent outside of the.

Factory to be, to be distributed. When we look broader, we start looking at the products in situ. So that then starts to become more project embodied carbon. And that is the remainder of a life cycle assessment. The reason that I'm making the differentiation there is a one to a three product embodied carbon tends to remain quite static.

So if you change your suppliers, then yes, the embodied carbon will change, but let's assume that you use the same suppliers, that the process stays the same. The embodied carbon figure stays the same. The rest of the life cycle assessment can vary depending on where you put it, how often it's used, how often you plan to maintain the product, what you plan to do with it end of life, because by that point manufacturers don't tend to have control over [00:17:00] what happens at the end of life for a building and their product.

So it's quite a, It's quite a broad thing. And if there's one thing that we're really sort of trying to get people to focus on is that split product and project. But I think most people would say that it, that it makes sense to think of it that way. We did quite a large body of work in the sort of six, seven months just gone.

We did a bit of research into embodied carbon. One of the first things that came out really clearly is that everyone has a different definition. And what made it worse is that almost nobody knew. That somebody else might have a different definition to them. So when you said, Oh, this company actually feels differently, or we've heard, actually, it could be this people were a bit, a bit shocked that someone else could be talking about something different.

So we've been really trying to get people when they're talking about embodied carbon, because it's becoming. an increasing request of the supply chain can you provide us with embodied carbon data to state really clearly what their definition is [00:18:00] because you can almost find yourself of both having different definitions and not even realizing that you do that's what we found is a consultancy when Organizations are coming to us asking for that very thing.

They will compare something from another organization and say, well, ours is not different to that. Why is it performing differently? And we then need to explain to them, well, there is no regulation in this area at all at the moment, and. Often people are looking at how good can I look as opposed to how close to the truth can I get?

Yeah, and I would say as well, you know, we've done a lot of work on this So we've recently launched a net zero service to support our members And one of the first things that we did was look at embodied carbon and we created the product carbon initiative That basically just looked to lay out the current landscape and the challenges of embodied carbon data because you can request embodied carbon data like for a product from two different manufacturers and not even realize that they're not [00:19:00] comparable and it's not necessarily those two manufacturers have tried to You know, make their numbers better on purpose.

It's just that there's no standardization. There's no methodology to follow. There's no best practice depending on who you go to. There are, you know, hundreds of databases out there that you can pull assumptions from. And because of the complexities of our supply chains right now, we have to work with assumptions.

In the future we'll be able to do exact data, but we're not there yet. So if you're using the same methodology but a different database for your assumption, maybe you're using UK government, maybe you're using DEFRA. Maybe you have paid a third party to help you out because it's a really complex job.

They've got their own database and it just means nothing's comparable between it. We are working to solve that, but some of the standards and best practice, like it takes quite a while to actually write it down. It takes a while to agree what that practice is going to be. And then once we have it, it's going to take a [00:20:00] while for manufacturers to adopt it.

So the whole point of Fish Initiative was really to try and help explain from a supply chain point of view why we can't always supply accurate data like the market wants. We'd love to be able to do it, but we're just not there yet. This may be a difficult question for you to answer, but have you done any work with BSI in and around this?

Because BSI are a standards group. They are. They are. We work BSI. We speak to them a lot. We're just about to look at forming a committee to help write some of this, this best practice and BSI involved in that. And we've also got civil servants involved as well. Really trying to make sure that this isn't another spin off three, four, five, 10, 20 companies use it.

And the rest of industry doesn't, you know, in many ways, having a new initiative, a new way of doing things isn't helpful. We just all need to get together and agree. One approach, one standard that's going to require us probably writing it [00:21:00] ourselves as a supply chain with BSI support, because obviously they have a standards body.

We want to involve them in what we do. It's interesting, isn't it? How the place that we want to get to as in a more sustainable world, more sustainable environment for at least for the in the construction industry. It means we need to be less competitive and we need me to be more collaborative. And actually collaboration is the antithesis.

of sustainability, very, very much. So I said our new net zero service is all about trying to help our members become informed so that they can strategize their net zero journey with as much knowledge as possible. So we're looking at helping them reduce their emitted and their embodied emissions whilst aligning to a circular economy.

And you know, we've got Key areas need to do around that, you know, advocacy with, with government, engaging with upstream and downstream supply chains. But most importantly, Building a community because one company cannot fill the gaps we have alone. This [00:22:00] needs to be something that we decide to do as a sector at Bima.

As I said, we have manufacturers who create sort of the technologies we need for electrification. So the energy infrastructure, we are only one part of the construction supply chain, as you will know. And we're also speaking to other trade associations to say, right, let's not just make this a Bima thing.

You know, we've got 200 members that can sign up to this, but in itself, is that enough? Should we bring in other associations as well? Other members of the supply chain? And then let's start doing things one way, just across the board. We're moving so fast. I think we forget sometimes that that best practice, that standardization needs to catch up and then the policy on top as well, which sort of needs to underpin a lot of what we do.

We're trying to do things as fast as we can, but we need to do them in a way, which is, you know. We need to do it in a way that everyone can adopt, which is fair. And the only way to do that is to sit down and start having conversations. [00:23:00] You mention about government and at the moment we are in the past.

When this podcast is out, we're going to be in the future. Yes. So we don't know what government is going to be running the country, but irrespective of what government it is, what support, What effort will be needed from the government? So we've just launched a manifesto and I'm trying to remember what's in it.

So we've actually just launched a manifesto around this looking at what we sort of need from government kiosks. I think one of the things that has become really apparent In the last sort of couple of months, if not year, is that climate change, net zero sustainability, has almost been used as a sort of election tool.

So it's been used to try and get votes. So that means that there are policies that were previously put in place that have been rolled back on. And that doesn't necessarily create an environment of certainty. There's quite a lot of policy that we've seen sort of drafted. Consultations we were expecting, you [00:24:00] know, response to future home standards and sort of other things as well where we really need to see those.

One of the last things we, we need is a new government coming in, looking at the work that sort of businesses have sort of underpinned their future development on and scrapping it. In many ways, you know, some of these pieces, we just need to really make sure that even though they could potentially have come under a previous government, who knows where we're going to be.

What is it that you think causes governments to leverage the whole net zero thing? And I'm talking about here rolling back certain things to try and encourage people to vote for them. Why do you, why do you think that they're using that as a tool? It's decisive, isn't it? It's, you tend to come down either one side of net zero or another.

I still speak to people who don't believe we need to, to change and that, you know, there'll be either solutions that will just fix the, the issue of global warming or maybe it's not happening in the [00:25:00] first place. I think one of the main reasons that it's being used is it's going to change a lot and, you know, people can become very fearful.

It may be that you don't want to change your heating patterns. You might not want to change your car. And if you feel like you are being forced to change, then of course it might be something that you ultimately end up deciding to change your vote on. What would you say to people that will say, well, I don't know why we're bothering in the UK anyway, because the total amount of CO2 emissions that we produce are far less than countries like China or India or So I would quote my CEO here, and she has a really brilliant line where she says we either all meet net zero or none of us do.

And I really think that that is, is where we are. So even if we are further ahead in some areas than other countries, that doesn't mean that we should stop. I do agree that net zero needs to work for you. [00:26:00] So, you know, this is where really the manufacturers come in. So you're talking commercially viable here?

Yeah, commercially viable, you know, products that people desire, products that people can afford, products that people want to use or want to change their habits for. And I believe looking at the sort of track record of, of our members of our industry of manufacturing, that we have, you know, a lot of the solutions already that we need, but we also have an absolute brilliant potential today.

All we need is for certainty. So we need the certainty from government that You know, investment in the UK, investment in low carbon technologies is the right way to go. That certainty comes from strategy and policies that aren't overturned. It comes from long term roadmaps that are set, you know. The reason why net zero has been as powerful as it has is because it's a legal target.

If it wasn't a legal target, then Maybe it would be moved by now and that removes the certainty, but I don't think we should ever sort of undervalue the [00:27:00] impact that having something in law actually has. You mentioned that net zero is a legal target. There's a number of people that won't understand when that happened, how that shows up, or even if that's true.

Can you give some context around that? I can. So it was actually Theresa May's government, one of the last things that she did. She enshrined net zero by 2050 into UK law. So what that means is we have said that legally, by the year 2050, we will be net zero as a country. That was a huge thing to do.

Incredibly challenging. But it draws a line in the sand, and now we all know the target that we're working towards. We have almost carbon budgets coming up to 2050 that almost like markers for how we're doing. How much, how many emissions do we want to reduce and by when? We've met them to date so far, but in the UK we haven't included aviation shipping.

In those emissions is farming included in there as well. I believe farming is included. So we'll have to wait and see what [00:28:00] happens when aviation and shipping is included in our missions. But right now we've done an amazing job at decarbonizing electricity. You know, that's where most of our. But we now, I think the CCC said we need to quadruple the amount of emissions reductions happening outside the power sector.

And the CCC is? That is the Climate Change Committee. So they advise government on how the UK is doing to reach net zero. And they make suggestions of what we can do to go back on course. Whether the government choose to listen to their suggestions is a different matter. And so because that is enshrined in law, What will happen if the target is not hit by 2050?

So I would look less at the legal implications here and look more at the scientific ones. So, you know, chances are we will, the UK will be taken to court. by organisations out there who want to try and keep us on track of net zero by 2050. The reason net zero by 2050 is in place is [00:29:00] actually because of a one and a half degree tipping point.

So this is the idea, become net zero by 2050, and we will hopefully, and I'll say hopefully because we are seeing a rapid heating of the Earth faster than scientists previously thought it could, we are seeing a rapid heating of the Earth that's raising us towards the one and a half degree. target we're all aiming for.

So this is a target that was set out in the Paris Agreement and it tries to limit global warming below one and a half degrees compared to pre industrial levels. If we go over that, we start to see more severe consequences of climate change. We start to see more disruption. We start to see more catastrophic weather events or extreme weather events around the world.

So although we've got net zero in law. And if we miss it, I'm sure someone will take the government to court for missing a legal target. I would instead focus on what it would actually mean in real life if we missed it. Obviously, you've got the element, as you said, we're only one country. [00:30:00] And when we start looking at, you know, what we can do in the UK to help other countries try and reduce their emissions, you know, it's mainly down to the government they have.

But supply chains are a global thing. And if we start saying in the UK, We want low carbon products in our building. We want to put low operational carbon, but also low embodied carbon. If we start looking at sustainability requests from companies who may be providing you products into the UK, but their main head office is based in Europe, perhaps we start to see how we can influence on a global scale.

I'm a firm believer that. We will reach net zero, you know, policy will have an element, but it will be that commercial driver that really helps to get us there. You speak very passionately about this topic and you can see and understand why you're in the role that you are. But for those people that are listening.

I'm watching. What role is it that you do? And I'd love for you to go into as much detail as you can about how you got the job that you're doing. So I'm the head of net zero and clean tech. [00:31:00] Two parts to my role. So I'll, I'll split them up. The first is helping our members to reduce their emitted and embodied carbon.

So become net zero whilst aligning for circular economy. So there's no point reducing your emissions if perhaps you're not going to start looking at the more sustainability aspects. What I do. With that is, I support our members of questions they have. I try and tie our members up with market initiatives that are going on.

We try and fill some of the standardization best practice gaps that we've got. So how can we make sure we're moving down the path in the same way, for example, or a fair way. One of the things that we're seeing is sustainability being used for commercial tendering, more and more. So that might be, you have to have a climate commitment in order to tender, you have to be aligned with science based targets, you have to be able to give us embodied carbon, whatever it is, and, you know, sometimes as well we're increasingly seeing companies actually scored on it.

So the way that you win a tender could be, [00:32:00] Tied into your sustainability approach internally. So trying to make sure that we have fair practices, a level playing field is, is really key in some of the things that we're doing. And we're also looking at some of the sort of underpinning of what it means to be net zero.

Like how do you actually get there? And that's something that we find. is is really missing. So you as a company may say, we want to do the right thing. We want to have brilliant climate commitments. We want to sign up. We want to be net zero. So, you know, the way the service actually started was that we started giving information on race to zero, race to zero for SMEs, encouraging manufacturers to say we'll be net zero by 2050.

And we saw an amazing response. And then we saw the flood of emails. Now what? Now what do I do? And what we found, you know, I spend a lot of time reading a lot of academic material, a lot of regulation, looking at some of the things that the market's asking for, different ways of doing things, trying to provide that support so that manufacturers can make informed [00:33:00] decisions about the now what, now what do we do is, is a key part to it.

So the way I describe it is if you accompany climbing your net zero mountain, when you're stood at the top, you're like, we've done it, we've got net zero emissions. What we are doing is we're showing to our members. All the different routes up that mountain that they may want to take within each of the sections.

What tools are available to help them? Who's there to give them a helping hand? Who's also trying to scale the mountain? And you may find benefit in helping each other out and more learning from each other. And then saying to our members, right, now that you can make an informed decision. You can go away and look at your business strategy for net zero.

So that's the first half of my role. The second half looks at the clean technology market. So that is looking at the building regulations. Now we've worked with Darren Evans and I have in previous companies as well, looking at, you know, SAP, now HEM. Modeling. All of that falls under my remit of sort of leading within BEMA and also looking at energy efficiency [00:34:00] policy.

So that's energy efficiency for products, but it's also energy efficiency beyond the building regulations. So how can we encourage commercial buildings to be more energy efficiency? There are schemes that have been floated around performance frameworks. What do we do about retrofitting our housing stock?

So the two conversations kind of tie in together quite well. It's this whole net zero So But you've got the net zero industrial decarbonization side and then you've got the net zero market side exciting role. Yeah, busy role, busy role, brilliant role. So it fares. I never have an issue getting up in the morning and saying I want to get up and do this.

I never have an issue with sort of drive or passion to try and move things forward. How did you get into this position? So I. Initially started working myself fresh out of university for a heating and ventilation manufacturer, looking at the specification. So it was a bit of a strategy role. How do we look at marketing strategy?

How can we [00:35:00] tie our products in to compliance? Cause as you know, that's a key part in, in specifications, especially new build commercial and new build times and retrofit commercial. So I sort of started down this tricky route of building regulations. And I will say my degree is actually marketing. But I really wanted to prove that I could do it.

So I stayed up nights on end reading the building regulations cover to cover. And I did it. That's a tough, that's a tough thing. It was a tough thing. I did it for night after night, finishing, picking up the next one. Going back to reread it to pick it up. I was so lucky to be supported by so many brilliant people who knew their stuff.

So people who'd been in specification for years and in sales or the commercial world, engineers, or, you know, those working on the actual design of applying our product, my previous company to a customer's design footprint. It was sort of pulling that together. The hours of reading the [00:36:00] regulations, speaking to people and just absorbing What they were telling me and that's a real world experience.

I was so lucky my previous company that they let me go out in the field that I could actually get a flavor for it. That I could hear these conversations. I could listen to what people cared about. I also had a bit of a, a bit of a task of looking at the longer term market. So, you know, what could be the future of this product category?

Is it, is it positive? Should we get involved in this product? Like, what is the future market telling us? So I started delving into the world of future regulations, talking to, to civil servants about what could come, looking at EU policy, trying to tie the two together. I was one of the few people who had a very, very, Start realized that because of EU law, the energy performance of buildings directive, and we hadn't left the EU at this point, or we had, but we're in that transition period that we would have to start looking at primary energy.

So I was doing this huge piece, this huge report. Luckily, my company supported me [00:37:00] to do it. Looking at what was primary energy mean applied to the UK, speaking to R& D engineers who had the data products, speaking to the application designers. And, you know, what. That could actually do to a, to a dwelling, went and spoke to a lot in the market and just said, you know, this is what it is, what you think would happen.

The government used the report for the future home standard consultation, sort of look at, look at the impact and I sort of started to get this overall feel of, Where we were, where we were heading and I started to see growing coming up behind me, sort of in your wing mirror realizing this net zero thing is, is starting to really creep up on you and we're starting to get more and more requests and there's more and more policy coming out.

The civil servants are asking about it, more and more customers are, and I started looking at it going this is going to be a whole A whole new role. It's going to be a whole new job for someone looking at the supply chains we have, which are so complex from raw material extraction to, you know, end of [00:38:00] life in some cases, like what you do with it, looking at product design, looking at so much.

And that's when CEO of my current company, Beamer, who's Ella, Farmer called me up and said, I've taken the CEO role. I need someone to pick up net zero at Beamer. She knew that I was looking for a new role. I really wanted one more tied into sustainability and she, she offered me the role. So I sort of joined in and just went, right, let's, let's do this.

Let's build something from, from the ground up. Kind of like how, you know, when I first started and I was reading all the building regs, I was really trying to convince my company to, you know, to Basically take a shot on me. So I was a graduate and I was saying to me, saying to them, let me head up your Channel marketing as we called it then your channel marketing for specification.

It's only like a year or so out of university So what did they say you bonkers? Why on earth would we I do that to a degree, but I didn't let them get that far I went fully [00:39:00] armed plans work that I've been creating. So you came to them with a proposal. Yep And I basically said, you know, give me a chance.

If it doesn't work out, then if it does, here's a taste of what I can do. So much of my success in those early days would be. You know, being thankful to those who gave me the chance, really. I'm thankful for those who answered all my questions. If you imagine that you've, you've only ever done a marketing degree and you're reading the building regulations.

Like it was complex, it was technical. I had a lot of questions. You can't Google all of them. I tried. Some of them you need answers for because not all of it seems to make sense. So all those people who spent their time Helping me, training me, giving me their knowledge, their understanding. I wouldn't be here today if those people hadn't taken that chance on me.

So what did your previous company say then when you came to them effectively with this business proposal, what did they say? No, get lost. Come join us. I already worked for them, but as a marketing, but you're asking here for a [00:40:00] significant shift, right? From a marketing graduate to let me head up a brand new department doing something that I didn't actually study in university.

And I've got no. Detailed technical experience in so I wasn't heading it up per se. I still have my boss I was just leading the work planning the budgets the strategy. Okay for it So they did their toe then with you they did and they said let's try it and you know I had a couple of more than a couple of conversations and this was pre covid So we're all in the office constantly knocking on their doors.

I'd like to do this knocking on their door next week I would like to do this and eventually they were like, hey, let's try it And I was able to prove to them that it was something that I could do. So they gave me the manager role. I said, I couldn't have been a year out of university, not all my success by any means.

It was all those people who helped me, who supported me. Yeah. I think it's really interesting, the humility that you're showing here. And I, and this is not forced humility. And I'm, I hope I'm not coming across as [00:41:00] being patronizing by saying that you're being humble because it's taking you. Your action to make that difference.

I know what those documents are like that you have read. And this is not like reading an interesting novel. This is technical, complicated. Sometimes you need to actually sit and think, how are these points even connected? How are the documents connected? This is not. Bedtime reading. This is hard graft. And so after you've done all of that, and then you've engaged with other people to try and fill in the gaps and successfully done that, that would have taken a lot of effort, a lot of thought and a lot of determination.

Definitely. I, it's something that I've always been good at. If I'm honest, it's Being determined? Being determined, yes. You know, before I had the motorbike crash in, when I was 21, I was certainly on the top scale of arrogant, shall we say. And you know, life experiences like that, they do change [00:42:00] you. Becoming a parent changes you as well.

And I wouldn't, you know, for all of my determination, for all of the hours spent reading the regulations, I wouldn't have got where I was without the help of others. It wasn't In fact, what made it so successful is that I had so many people willing to feed into it. And I guess my greatest achievement in many ways was listening, listening, taking them on, weaving them together, and then being able to say, here's the story.

And I guess in many ways, that's what what marketing's about. I'm just lucky that. I have the patience to read the building regulations and sort of, yeah, be able to tie it in with things that are coming as well. My brain jumps about all over the place, but it works. So you got to the position that you are now effectively because the outgoing person that had taken up a CEO role, Zara, Ella, I'm sorry.

You effectively have got this position because Yella who was in the job that you [00:43:00] are doing now that's taken up a CEO role. Identified that and I'm sure other qualities in you and said I'd love for you to be on my team Yeah, how was that? How did that relationship start? So my previous company were members of Bima.

So I spoke to you to use Ella a lot when she was in her previous role. I spent a lot of time at the Bima meeting. So obviously I've told you about the net zero sides, but Bima do a lot of quite technical detailed work on, you know, changes to product regulations, for example, looking at the impact of things that happening in the market and what it means.

So I knew who Zella was. I'd worked quite closely with them. I said there are some things that I knew even then were better done on a industry level. So if we have an idea, primary energy was a brilliant example. We had done work and research into the impact of primary energy, written up these reports.

But what use is that if we know what the impact [00:44:00] is? We've got very little chance of changing government's mind, even if they did take the report. Take them to your trade association, who read it, check it, and then say, You're right, this is the impact that primary energy could have. It's potentially a huge shift for the industry, which it was.

Let's now take that report. And let's start having this, this conversation as an industry where then the industry is aligned on a position and then you're able to get basically more heard by government because there's more voices saying the same thing. The other thing as well, just as you're speaking there, even in that relationship with yourself, you were proactive in that area because there's lots of, Networking events or other types of trade shows or meeting places where it's easy just to go in, stick in a lane and just get your head down and do what you're there to do, but without going and adding that extra bit of value and seeking out that relationship.

Never been very good at just staying in my lane. [00:45:00] I I enjoy building things, and I think that's perhaps what they saw in me at my previous company. The specification market, I mean, we were a company that had been around for ages, a very successful company. Moving into the specification market was a new experience.

So although my boss at the time who he was so supportive of me, like he took a chance by giving me the role in the first place by hiring me, you know, he gave me the space I needed to be able to say if I were to pick this up. Build it, what would it be? And ELA did the same thing for me really at, at Beamer, which was giving me that space to say, right, you know, if I'm good at building things, what could this look like?

Mm. And again, I've always made sure that, you know, it's not my vision because, uh, someone working on their own vision will soon find themselves misguided. I got input from our members. I got input from the market, I got input from civil servants, so ultimately what we created was reflective as much as it could be, which provides value.

I could sit and talk to you for at [00:46:00] least another hour, but time does not permit. But what we need to do now is go to the demolition zone. Yes. Are you ready? I am. Let's do it.

Okay, so this is, this is great. This looks far better than, than what you originally created. It's, it's for those people that are listening, those four blocks are now connected in a circular manner with, it looks like the, the corresponding color of block pointing in towards a central What looks like a pivot to me, what does, what does it represent?

So it represents the fact that we need to move to a more circular economy to begin with. And that means that we need more communication across the board, but it also shows that in order to meet net zero, and if I could, if I had one, I'd put a little sign in that middle block saying net zero, hooray, we all need to communicate with each other.

It's all interlinked. It's all tied together. We need to [00:47:00] be working together, we need to be communicating, we need to realise we're part of the same sector, part of the same supply chain, and meeting that zero, which is a huge challenge, is only going to happen with that collaboration and discussion. This is reminding me of the conversation that we had earlier on when you spoke about the work that you're doing with BSI and other organisations to try and look at this as a more collaborative approach.

Approach to solve the problem and I'm completely with you I think that this is the only way that we can solve the problem and also the only way That we can be sustainable is by working together And I'm just wondering now if is any invitation that you have for our listeners or those people that are watching To try and invoke a more collaborative Wave of approaching this.

Yeah, definitely. I think I would say The supply chain is here and ready to listen. They're ready to engage. Beamer, especially, because I'm going to say that because that's, that's me. We would be open to any [00:48:00] opportunity of discussion, any work streams that would be valuable for us to join, any, any project or ideas that, you know, the market may have, which would benefit from input of the supply chain.

Because really when, when you think about it, the supply chain is the enabler. of net zero. It's the enabler of downstream to meet their scope three emissions. And we are open and ready to have any of these discussions. We have a flexible work plan at BEMA that means that, you know, if an opportunity comes up to work together on something, we're ready.

Our members are ready. Let's have the discussion. Let's work on it together. Offshoots are not helpful for anyone. We don't need any more, you know, people going off and doing things in their own singular way. Let's start acting more like we're in this circular engaged supply chain, which we are. So what would this look like?

So someone's listening to this. So give me a, maybe a, an example of the type of industry that you'd be open to having a conversation with, [00:49:00] how they would reach out to you and how they would start a conversation. So I'll go for. Two different examples, if that's okay. So I'd say the first way to reach out to us is through our website.

So beema. org. uk, that's B E A M A. org. uk. We would be open to any projects that you're looking at and the challenge of sustainability or net zero and how to reach it. So maybe you, as a company, are just starting to look at having embodied carbon as part of your tendering requirements. And you're wondering what you need to be aware of.

What you need to be thinking about, where might some of the challenges be? That's something that we can help you with, we can have a discussion on if you've got an idea for how we might be able to solve some of the standardization challenges we have. Again, something we're really willing to listen to. It may be that you're a house builder or a developer who've got science based targets and you're starting to realize that you need to reduce your scope 3 emissions, but actually that's largely out of your control.

The supply chain, [00:50:00] Can do things to help you reduce your scope of the emissions. So if you're looking at potentially what we could do, what you could do to reduce those emissions, have a conversations, what's feasible, what's not, get in contact. And there's definitely discussions that we can have. That's really good.

Amy, I've loved having you on the show. It's been great to listen to your passion, to your wisdom, and to, to hear the story. Of what you have done personally, as well as what Bima are doing as well, being led by an inspirational chief executive. Definitely. Well, thank you for having me. Thank you.