Naomi Thrower

I was a yoga teacher for well, five years while my kids were really young. Actually, I was, I was teaching for eight years, but I had my own little children's yoga business when my kids were really young. Oh, right.

Because I just wanted to be around and it wasn't working for me being in a job where I had to be. nine to five and just decided that I wanted to do something that was in my heart and I felt really passionate about and that I could have my kids there with me. So I was teaching in nurseries and schools and did retreats and my daughter was there in a lot of my classes and did sort of holiday camps.

And yeah, it was, it was, uh, it really worked at the time. It felt really wholesome And it was really what I wanted. I wanted to be there really present with my children when they were, when they were little. How [00:01:00] did you get into yoga? So I had a back problem from actually, so I used to do a lot of horse riding when I was younger and I had a back injury.

I like fell off and when I was a teenager and just never recovered. And so someone suggested that I go to hot yoga. So I went to a hot yoga class. In my early twenties and I was really into that hot yoga as in in a sauna. Yeah, it's like 40 degree heat And got really addicted to it. Really? Yeah, it's amazing.

How so because I I go to saunas and steam rooms, but I can't think of it's really really tough But you feel euphoric afterwards. It's like and it's just feels like your body's been put back together and You know So I was doing that for a few months and I was like, I didn't, I haven't had a back injury.

I mean, I haven't had back pain since then. And before that I was, I mean, I would have times when I just couldn't, [00:02:00] I'd have to lie on the floor cause my back was so bad. So, and that was only in my early twenties. So, So yeah, ever since then, I've never, I have never had that problem, but then I progressed. So I, when I went into teaching, I trained as a vinyasa teacher, which is it just normal, like in a, it's just a movement flowing from one pose to the next pose.

And then I did, yeah, lots of other courses. Kids and pre postnatal and, and then I did a hot yoga course as well. And when did you stop doing yoga as a business? I stopped teaching, uh, about two, three years ago. It just, cause I was thinking, I'll, I'll go back into, into marketing. I didn't. So one of the things I didn't enjoy about.

Yoga teaching was actually running my own business in that sense was actually, I found it quite lonely. So I'm really love being [00:03:00] around people. And, um, I just decided, and also, you know, I'd had 12 years of my career before, and I'd really enjoyed a lot, big parts of that, and being part of a group of people that are influencing something.

Um, so, Yeah, I, I decided, Oh, I'll, I'll kind of do a hybrid. So I'll do like, um, part time, uh, yoga, teaching part time into a marketing, uh, job. So I tried that and then I just took on too much. It was like, I was just trying to do too many things. And obviously I had the kids were young and. I just took on other things.

I was running the marathon, I was doing, I dunno, I was just like, let's just like do everything . Um, uh, so yeah, I just decided that my, I needed to focus on my career and actually financially I needed to as well. So it just felt like I needed to leave that and, and I know that I [00:04:00] will pick it up again. I think, so I do my own practice now, uh, and I, yeah.

starting my own business. So, um, I've just had to throw everything at that. I've got to be like completely focused on just doing that now. Yeah, it is. It's really absorbing in your mental tech, like your, your mental energy, your focus. Your time setting up a new business or being a leader of a business.

Absolutely. And I think I've got that sort of mindset where I become quite obsessed with something. So I find it quite hard not to work at the weekends or not to be thinking about what my next thing is or how I'm doing something. So for me to be doing. Sort of more than one big project like that. It's just too much.

It's kind of overload. Um, and as you said, I mean, starting your own business, you've just initially it's, it's momentum, isn't it? It's like, you've got to throw everything at it. [00:05:00] So the last, so I went freelance eight months ago and I just went, I just was out, you know, everything that anyone invited me to, and I've just really researched different, um, Uh, networking groups and tried all of them and, and found the ones that I've really liked and then sort of nurtured those mm-Hmm, and yeah, you've just got to try stuff as well.

You know, just be really proactive about relationships and following things up and coffees, and that's sort of how it's worked for me. Um, but all like, again, found freelance. You know, it's quite lonely actually working on your own. So, um, have decided to sort of evolve that into an agency idea where I'm working with two people that I love and that we can grow something amazing together.

I'm really excited about that. So what is the vision then for this company that you started with those two people that you love? Yeah. So, well, I haven't started yet. We're, um, [00:06:00] September. We've got a launch party. This is the heads up. Yeah. So, um, I've, I have been interested in, in sort of impact for a long time.

And I suppose like the yoga teaching plays into that as well. It was like wanting to support people to live better, to be better. And I've always been into that. health and wellbeing in that sense. Um, but so, and have also evolved, I suppose, done a lot of kind of personal development work myself, looking at really what's important to me, how you live a values driven life, how you create routines in your life to make yourself, to give yourself the best opportunities of being your best self.

Um, and I love working with people. I love that. So the last sort of [00:07:00] five years I've been working, um, in brand strategy, supporting. Uh, leaders of, of smaller businesses to, to really tap into what their purposes and, and how they bring that into their company and bring that into their brands. I really believe that the distinction in your company, especially when you're a smaller business, it lives within the people in your organization.

In your business, like you will never have your business is completely unique. Cause you will never have another business that's got those people, those exact people in it. You know, maybe if you, there's three of you, you start another business, but actually most of the time you have a completely unique mix of different people and everyone has something to say.

Everyone has. Their passion, their thing, and that sort of mix, empowering people to, to talk about the things that, [00:08:00] that bring, That life and passion to them, I think is, is so powerful. Um, and is an untapped resource in many companies. Um, so yeah, I've, I've, um, I've tried to look at what my skillset is, what I love to do and how I make that into a business.

And then I grow something that really means something to me. So. I've taken the things that I really love doing and we're creating it into a bit more of a niche agency. So I think LinkedIn is such an amazing platform and I've met loads of really incredible people through just like posting things that mean something to me and trying to reach out to different people.

I've met some amazing people. Um, I think. And so, so I think initially focusing on, on LinkedIn, I think there's, there's a lot of people that are, are doing really amazing things at [00:09:00] a senior level, um, but they want to do something for good and it, maybe it's in the back of their minds, you know, I had a conversation with a friend.

Who I've known for quite a few years in the property industry. Um, on Friday we just had a coffee and he's, he is like the perfect, uh, client for us. So he's doing really well. He's, he's very comfortable in his role. He's very senior. Um, but he's kind of got to that place where it's like, is that, is that all I'm going to do?

And he's thinking about. Homeless charities. And he's got a friend who's, he's been a bit involved with this, but it's like actually, and he's got lots of followers on LinkedIn. He has the opportunity to do something really amazing for people that need that. And I, I think. He's probably quite time poor, um, perhaps doesn't have the, have the headspace to, to, to work out where he'd [00:10:00] be communicating that message or how to communicate it.

Um, and we want to support those people to do really good things. So I think, and there's lots of benefits to that. I think there's benefits to your business because it raises the profile of you and then. As a sort of halo effect, it raises the profile of what you do in your business, but it's also doing really good stuff as well.

And it's helping people to find causes that need them and that can do better with their help. It sounds like the position that you're in at the moment has got a backstory to it with this desire that you have to try and help people find purpose and meaning. Yeah, um, well, I was definitely, I think. I wasn't one of those people that came out of school knowing what I wanted to do and I think probably I didn't love my school [00:11:00] experience.

I felt quite, I went to quite a hard, uh, challenging, uh, school environments. And I think I came out a bit, uh, I didn't have a lot of confidence. So when you say challenging school environment, what do you mean by that? Uh, high expectations. Okay. So high achieving school, high achieving school, the expectations from mom and dad were high, teachers high.

I think more it was sort of, I went to a. A school that was where, yes, the expectations were really high. Probably it wasn't the right environment for me, um, and their way of motivating. And, and I know that it was from a good place now. I know that, but it was kind of like, well, you're not good enough, you know, you need to do better, like why are you even here?

Like, you know, [00:12:00] so that, that wasn't a great way to motivate me. I think some people. Maybe more competitive girls or, um, different people might have been motivated by that. And it didn't motivate me. It crushed me. So I think I came out of school feeling not very confident and not knowing. where I, where I sat, where, where I needed to be.

I think I, the sort of self development stuff that I've done and like really understanding and trying to tap into what it is I am good at. Actually, I'm really creative and I'm quite sensitive, very sensitive, um, which I've always seen as a weakness. Actually, sensitivity is such a gift, but you need to be, self aware enough to understand when it's not serving you.

So when you say sensitive, what some people might hear is you need to walk on eggshells when you're around them, [00:13:00] because you could offend them really, really easily. There's going to be a big drama and you'd be like, where the heck did that come from? What does it, you mean by sensitive? Uh, I think that I can pick up on energy of people.

I think I connect with people really easily because I, uh, I would say that's, that's the positives of being a sensitive person. You sort of, you can, I feel like I can build relationships very quickly because I can pick up on what people need or, or what's kind of scratched beneath the surface. But I think equally, I know that I, I can take things on board and they can sit with me.

I think I take emotion and it sits with me and I find that quite hard. So if I'm having a, you know, supporting someone through a difficult time, I really, it really, really is heavy for me because I take, um, almost, you know, take that emotion in, um, [00:14:00] And then, yeah, definitely, I have to pull myself away from taking things personally as well, but I think as you get older and you understand that, that actually, you know, nothing is personal, almost nothing is personal, usually, you have to be mindful of like, like just pulling yourself away from that.

It's such a gift. To be sensitive and to be able to read people and to connect with them quickly and, and love that experience. So I don't know if that answers the question. Yeah, that's great. You know, one of the words I would use is perceptive. It sounds like you're really perceptive of. How to read a situation with, with that person in that situation, either to support them, help them or to see them develop in some way, shape or form.

Yeah, I thought, yeah, I think so. I think it's about, yeah, being able to pick up on cues and understand what it is someone [00:15:00] needs and maybe be able to ask the right questions to get, to extract information, to be able to support that person, to do what they need to do. And so you're linking this then with the experience that you've had at school.

Understanding that you've got skill sets that maybe weren't either recognized or taught at school. Yeah, I think, I think I, I think when I was younger, I probably felt that I was I was ticking boxes, you know, it was like, well, you do this and you go to school and go to university and then you get a boyfriend and then you get a flat and then you get engaged and then you get married and then you have kids and then, and then you get to have kids and you're like, Oh, I've ticked all the boxes.

Now, what do I do? And as, you know, I found, I found that really like, did I tick the right boxes and why did I tick those boxes and why do I have to conform to that? Why, [00:16:00] where is the thought process in that? I think. And maybe that's, maybe it's a midlife crisis. I don't know, but you get to like post kids and the, the, there aren't that many boxes then.

It's like, uh, I'm, I'm wondering what, what all that was all about. And of course I, you know, my children are everything, but I've had to make. I didn't really feel like I knew myself. Like, what do I want? What am I good at? What, what, what, what do I bring to the world? How do I help? How do I, how do I create impact in this really amazing way?

Um, and I think probably years of, of evolving my yoga practice has supported that kind of really proactive thinking about that and wanting that and knowing that doing [00:17:00] good things is, is, is, is. Makes you feel amazing. But you need to be intentional because good things don't happen on their own, right? No, they don't.

So when did you have this question sit with you? What difference am I going to make in the world? What is it I need to do? How can I have meaning which are deeper than these boxes that it feels like I've ticked to the point at the moment. So if I understand this right, you've got to the point where you're married, you've got a child or two children and you've gone through this process and now you're asking yourselves these questions centered around meaning.

Yeah, there's been some changes in my personal life as well recently. But, um, so there was a big turning point actually. Um, and it wasn't that long ago and probably, you know, it's all a, it's all a gradual process, isn't it? But I, uh, so I was [00:18:00] working for an agency last year and, and before that I was freelance for a bit and we were doing a lot of, you know, Being out and about, I was doing some business development.

It was, it was a tough time actually. And I actually, towards the end of that, I read a book called the go giver that, um, someone sent me, um, Oh, gosh, that's a good question. Bob someone, I think. Okay, well, don't worry about that bit. Just, just, just go again. I interrupted you. So you read a book? No, that's fine.

Um, and it's, it's all about, it's quite a short book. You should definitely read it. I'll send you one after the interview. Thank you. Um, it's all about, it's a business book. But it's about how to create an authentic self in your business life. [00:19:00] And it's about just repositioning how you see success and that you give before you receive, and you give out being authentic and what is in your hearts.

And. It's about how many people you serve and how well you serve them. And if you do all of those things, everything will come to you. Um, and it just really, I've just really got it. I was like, I just have to be authentic. I have to be me. I have to just say what I feel and what I love and what I want to do and that.

That sort of um, you know, just the penny dropped in so many ways. It was like, I actually, if, if you don't say what you really feel and you don't use your voice, no, nobody will know. [00:20:00] And So I just started, especially on LinkedIn, I just started putting out stuff that, that really resonated with me and that I wanted to say, and that seemed to do really well.

And there were lots of people that, that loved the posts. And I always, I get people emailing me and texting me and sending me messages, maybe people from 20, 30 years ago that I haven't spoken to, like, I love your posts. They're so inspiring. Yeah, so I think I've always wanted to do good things and I've always wanted to make people happy and, and support people to, to, to live better and be better.

And then that connection with actually, I just need to tell people that and, and just talk in a really honest way. Um, there was another thing I was going to say, actually, um, Yeah, I think also with that, really understanding how you tap into, [00:21:00] to what's, what, what it is you want and, and setting my own values.

So, um, you know, impact is one of my values. And actually, if I, if I don't, if I don't think about that every morning, it's, I have a different day. If I, if I, I think, you know, there are stresses in life, right? There's been a lot of life changes over the past year for me. And I, I think I can, it's quite easy for me to be off center, you know, if, if things happen, but if you start your day with what are the big thing, you know, what's the, what's the really things that are going to change the world or, you know, what, what, what do you need to focus on that's, that really drives you?

Um, if I start my day with that, I can cope with things I can, cause actually I've got the bigger picture in mind. I've got perspective. Um, yeah, that's, I've gone [00:22:00] off the topic there. Everything you're talking about is good. The thing that I'm picking up on though, is you've mentioned big things going on quite recently and changes going on recently.

I'm wondering if there's anything in there that comes to mind that you want to share. Uh, so I think, I mean, so I stepped out of the career, uh, I stepped off the career ladder, uh, when I had my, well, I actually went off, my, my son was a couple of years old. And I went and, and I had my few years as a yoga teacher, and then I decided that actually I needed and wanted my career to come back because I feel like I wanted a wider influence in a positive way.

And that has been really, really hard to get my career back. That has taken years of [00:23:00] trying and failing and. Um, not backs and setbacks and working with the wrong people and, and trying to juggle and completely failing. And it's been such a. Like massive experience for me. And, um, I've had quite a few jobs at different companies and, and just none of them have kind of worked from a, I think, a work life perspective and also pressure perspective.

So I don't think, I don't think you can understand unless you're a woman with children who have this. It's just burning desire in your heart to give your children everything that they deserve and to be there for them all the time. That pull when you've got pressure from coming from work, those two things, just [00:24:00] that mix just hasn't worked for me in the past.

It's been just too much. Um, what does that look like? How does, how has that played out when those two worlds have collided? There's Well, I'll give you an example. I, um, so I, I, I started at a company and, um, And they were amazing actually. So it wasn't, it's not, and it's nobody's fault. No, it's just like, it's just the way it is.

Two worlds coming together. Yeah. So I started a company, start, did, did three days a week. It was just working like nine till three. It was all amazing. And then I was like, right, I need more, want more. So let's go up to like four full days. My daughter can go into, I'll, I'll start really early. And so that I can still pick her up from school.

And, um, Sort of put her in breakfast clubs and after school clubs and, and my son and, and, um, you get to the first week and she doesn't want to go to breakfast club. So I put her in [00:25:00] the first day and she's, you know, really upset. And then the second day I'm like, Oh, well maybe I can just, don't worry. Don't go because she doesn't want to go and I'll just work a bit later, but then I can't work a bit later because something else happens.

And then I'll just make up the time. And then, and then it sort of snowballs because you're like. You're trying to keep your kids happy and they don't want to do the things that you need them to do. And some, it's absolutely fine. If, if you can kind of push your kids to do things they don't want to do, but I just, I couldn't do it.

So all of these best laid plans ended up, you know, the wheels would fall off because I would always put the kids first and then I wouldn't be performing at work. And then the pressure would be building at work and, you know, You wouldn't feel you think, Oh, I'm just going to make it up. I'll do it. I'll work this weekend.

I'll make it up. And then you can't because something else happens. And then the kids are sick. And then you're, and then, and then work a really cross because you haven't [00:26:00] delivered and then it's just, and you feel this guilt, this. This guilt that you've let everyone down and you're, you're not good enough.

You, you're not good enough at home and you're not, you haven't performed at work. And then, and then it's like, I just can't do it. I just can't do it. And you end up, I've ended up walking away from jobs. Because it's just too much. And so going back now to that time, from your current perspective, what advice would you give?

Because there are going to be people out there in position that you were in back then, but that's their life right now. Yeah, yeah. I think there needs to be, it is so hard as a, A woman who wants to achieve, to be realistic, and I would say that your kids are young for a very short amount of time, in the grand scheme of things.

It's like, I [00:27:00] think a lot of mums, me included, you know, when you first have your baby, and everyone's like, right, back to the gym! Like, oh, they're six weeks old, come on, like, buggy fit, and like, get my figure back, like, it doesn't matter. You know, just leave it a few months. I've, I've got friends who have done like, like really bad back injuries and things because they've tried to go too hard, too quickly.

I mean, what's a few months? It doesn't matter. Just, just slow down. And I'd say when your kids are young, Fit it around what they need. Um, I think more companies need to, to be supportive of that. I know there's a big LinkedIn movement at the moment around this, this sort of five hour working day. I think if there are more companies that can do that, I mean, I think I haven't looked at the statistics, but there must be more people working freelance now, I think.

Maybe that's the sort of post COVID thing, but, but I think for [00:28:00] me, freelance is amazing because I don't have any pressure around like timings. So if I don't do something for a whole day, I can sit up until two in the morning and work if I, if I have to. And nobody's on my back about Obviously I've got deadlines, but it's, it's take, it's hugely taken that pressure away from me.

And that's because you've not got the manager saying you need to have this done by this date, by this time, because they've got a manager that is saying, is that what? Yeah, I think, I mean, you're, I'm completely in charge of my, my own time. Uh, so. I think not having to be in an office at certain times has been, I mean, I've got, I've got one client actually now where I am in the office a couple of days a week, but generally I am able to, you know, if I need to work at weekends, I can.

And that actually, I don't, that doesn't feel, that doesn't feel [00:29:00] bad to me. That feels like freedom because I, if I want to do something in the week with my kids and I can, so. Yeah, it must be. I think when you're working in a team, like, obviously you need to work together. You need to be there doing things.

And it's, I suppose the structure of it didn't work for me. That sort of having to do the same thing every day just just doesn't work for me. And maybe actually in my I love the freedom and the, uh, I'm not probably not really a routine person in many ways. I love my morning routine, but I'm not, I like being, having the freedom.

So I think I'm just like really understanding yourself, getting to know yourself and understanding. When you have kids, you [00:30:00] change. I, yeah. So if you go back now, uh, to the situation that you were in when you had these two worlds colliding, what three things would you say to yourself or to someone listening or watching this podcast?

That they need to do in order to feel like it's not negatively impacting them anymore. Two worlds colliding. Um, uh, reach out for help because probably if I'd done that a bit earlier, I probably could have found a solution. And who would you say that you could have asked for help from? Well, definitely the people that you're working with.

Okay. Because they should. Support you. Yeah. And they probably want to, right? Yeah. And I think consistent communication, you know, so, so I think I, one of the things that [00:31:00] I did definitely did wrong was I, I, I thought I'm not doing enough. I'm not doing well. I'm not. And I stopped communicating. So I think if I, if the red flags were there, if I was like, heads up, I'm not, Coping this week and you can talk to them that you can talk to your work or talk to your whoever you're working with and be like, okay, like, like, okay, well, someone else could do that this week or, you know, there's, there's always ways.

Um, I think I just. took on too much and then threw in the towel because it was so overwhelming. So I think be realistic about how much you take on and how much time it takes to be a present mum and you have a family. That's already a full time job. Um, I think also if you're, you know, If you're taking on work, make sure you're getting support in other areas.

So you have a cleaner, you have, you know, someone who can help you with whatever it is you need, the ironing, the stuff that actually [00:32:00] takes the time that if you're, if you end up not, not backfilling those roles, which they are, you know, roles, you end up in a mess and, and then it really does impact every part of your life.

And you don't. You don't feel like you're doing enough and I think those were the sort of, yeah, they, they were definitely the, the things that pushed me over the edge. Um, yeah, and just be realistic about what you can take on. Be really honest with yourself. Because it doesn't feel good when you take on too much good advice.

So now you come to a point where you have found meaning and that meaning is helping other people find meaning. Yeah, I suppose so. Yes, I think so. I also, um, I am into, I did a plastic free challenge with my Children a few months ago where we did 30 [00:33:00] days plastic free. So I suppose that's the other thing like.

The, the, the, the planet sustainability of the planet. So, um, yeah, sustainability from a people perspective, I, I really. I love that area, but, but just supporting the planet and the way that we live, um, I've done a lot. I started this initiative actually at the start of this year, which I'm going to re, I'm going to start again, which was looking at small things that we can all do to, um, support.

The planet and it's betterment or just living in a more, uh, sustainable way. Uh, so that's a big passion for me as well. Just looking at how we can reduce the amount of plastic that we use, that we can just actually reduce our footprint, uh, what we're using, how we're using it. That's a big passion for me.

So again, [00:34:00] just looking for some tip bits here, sort of just things that I can kind of take away to say, okay, right. I can do this. I can do that. I can do the other. Yeah. So what, what points would you give me? So a massive one is, um, single use code. coffee cups, which I made a pledge this year that I wasn't going to use any because I think we, I think something, something like 60 billion a year globally are used.

Um, I think it's something like 2. 5 billion in the UK and one in 400 are recycled. So they sit in landfill for up to 30 years, those cups. Um, and we don't need to use them. Like, if you've got a takeout, uh, like a reusable coffee cup, if we were all using those, the amount of landfill and plastic that would not be in the ocean or, you know, in landfill would [00:35:00] be just, you know, Like, that's such a massive thing and it's such a small thing for us to do.

So one of the things that's just kind of popped in my mind, and I don't know the answer, I don't drink coffee, but, um, if I had a reusable coffee cup, could I go into Costa or Starbucks and say, can I have my coffee in here, please? Yes. And they will do that for you? Yes. Okay. And Do people know that though?

Is that advertised? Uh, gosh, I'd hope so. I'd really hope so. I mean, if you don't know, Then they do. And, uh, they quite often give you like double stamps or a reduction in, in the cost of your coffee. So cheap coffee equates to bringing in a reusable reusable cup. Didn't know that. Yeah. You can tell I don't drink coffee, right?

Yeah. I'm sure there's loads of people out there that drink coffee that know that. Yeah. I mean, it's such a sort of, uh, uh, massive, massive industry now, isn't it? Um, so there's that. And then there's just, um, [00:36:00] behavior like shopping behavior. So we didn't buy any plastic for a whole month. It was really hard.

Um, but you have to, it's almost like, I feel like, you know, our sort of globalization has backed us into this corner where we're all so busy that we just need convenience stuff. You know, life is so fast. We, we, everyone wants things to be now and convenient. So if you do your weekly shop at the supermarket, Everything is wrapped in plastic.

So you need to not shop there. You need to, to pick different places to shop. Um, which is obviously time, different routine and it's, it's changed. So when I was doing plastic free, I was going to the market every Saturday morning, which has got all fruit and veg and everything. And actually there was still plastic at the market, [00:37:00] but so you have to choose, but All of your fruit and veg you can get without plastic on it.

You need to go to the butchers. You need to go to the fishmongers because you can ask for things without. Plastic wrapping, or you can take your own bags. Um, and then there are plastic free shops where you can go with all of your shampoo conditioner, all of your like toiletries. Um, there's a, there's a statistic around, um, deodorant as well.

Like the amount of plastic that for, you can get refillable deodorant sticks from the plastic free shop. Um, you can get all of your carbs. You can get like spaghetti and. pasta and lentils and rice and all of that stuff, all of this stuff, you realize when you start really looking at it, like how much plastic you throw in the bin from this stuff that you don't actually don't need to, if you, if you shop in the right places, but it takes time.

Right. And it's like, I've, I've suddenly like, um, I've [00:38:00] taken on a lot of new work recently and I've slipped into old habits. Cause I'm like, Oh, I haven't got any dinner at seven o'clock. Oh, I just pop into M& S, you know, and everything's, you know, Oh, they really, my, my kids. Really missed certain things. What did they say?

Oh, yeah. I was like, what do you like? Oh, we really miss really miss our lives. But before I was like, what do you miss? They were like Haribos What knew me I think we're now in a position where we can go to the demolition zone.

So we're back in the demolition zone and Naomi, you have created this, I can't even describe this to be honest, but it's a series of blocks, I would say coming together, some of them vertically, some of them [00:39:00] horizontally. Very colorful. And there's a donkey dog thing. He's just for effect. Yeah. What is it?

What does it represent? Um, so this represents the world, people in the world, and it represents the fact that we all love to be part of something. Everyone wants to belong and we look for people with similar values and similar feelings in all. In our souls, you know, you gravitate towards people that care about the same things that you do, and we are creatures that want to be together.

And I believe that we all have the power to change the world, as in put ourselves away from the fact that we are heading towards a place where the earth is not going to be able to [00:40:00] survive. With us here. And I believe that, um, everybody has the power to change. And nobody is too small to make a difference, but we need to come together.

We can't just stay in our separate little groups. We all have to come together as a united force. And, uh, I also believe that we all have to act now with small things that we can do, that we are in control of, and we influence the people. within our groups to do the same. I love that. So what is the myth then?

What is it that some people believe that are contrary to those beliefs that you've just listed? I think that people feel powerless to, to, to have an influence. I think we're waiting for the bigger. Companies for the bigger people for the [00:41:00] governments for the, you know, MPs for for supermarkets for we're all expecting them to make the differences that we need.

And I can feel that sometimes in myself. It's like, Oh, it's too hard. I'll just wait for the supermarkets to like get rid of plastic. It's fine. I'll just wait. We can't wait. We need to do it now. And we all have this power. We have a voice, we can push back, we can suggest, we can make small changes to our habits, and we can apply pressure to the organizations that do have much more influence and power than we do.

I like that. As you're speaking, it reminds me, and your children are a little bit younger than mine, so they might not have watched the DreamWorks production called Ants. Okay. Have you seen? No. Okay. And so ants is a story where, um, a colony of ants have to, throughout the summer, collect enough food to sustain them over the winter.

And what they [00:42:00] also need to do is they need to give this offering to the grasshoppers. As well, because the grasshoppers aren't bothered about storing anything. They just come along and they demand, they make these demands of, of food from the ants. And if they don't, the fear is that the ants are going to get destroyed.

And so all of the ants believe that they are completely powerless, even though there's about four or five grasshoppers that come, but there are Thousands of ants within this colony until one of the ants decides it's a bit of a He's a bit of a wild card. This ant decides that um, he's going to do things differently and manages to convince the whole colony To stand up for themselves So that they're not actually beholden to these grasshoppers that are putting this smoke and mirrors up or this charade up to say That unless you do this for us because you're powerless because you're so small and insignificant That you can't make a difference.

So you need to that you need to serve us That's kind of the thought that's in my mind actually when we all come together The [00:43:00] power is in the collective because there are so many of us. Yes. And I am part of a, in fact, I sit on the board of a, uh, a networking organization called bitter, which is the British and Irish trading alliance.

And that is so Paul Whitnall, who is the chairman there is he, uh, is very values driven, but he, uh, believes that we need to as a construction industry, as property industry to really, uh, influence change and to, and, and this is what networking organizations can, they have the power to do that. Um, I really strongly believe that there needs to be, there needs to be enablers to bring us together.

I like that. Well, you have cleared it up. So now all that's left to do is for you to destroy the myth. Okay, great. [00:44:00] So do I knock it down? What do I knock it down with? I just like Your choice. Oh, there's not a hammer. Unless you bought one in your bag.

Good, love it. I love it. Knocked it down, fussed it around, pushed it off the table. I'll just leave it there. No, no, no, just leave it there. It's fine. Honestly, it's fine. Yeah, that's part of it. That's part of it. Okay, fine. Good. So there's a couple of things that I kind of want to just to, um, to talk to you about, um, and that is around, um, echo chambers.

So how can, or what advice would you have for someone that's in the construction industry, or maybe even in marketing that is connected with like minded people and on their Instagram feed or on their LinkedIn feed? It's full of the same people that think the same way that they do. [00:45:00] How can they break out of an echo, the echo chamber to be more inclusive or understand how other people think so that they can influence others for, for good.

So give me an example of that. So an example of that would be, yeah. So an example of that would be, um, someone that is in the, In the business of trying to make buildings better. So they maybe are a Bream consultant or an energy assessor. They understand legislation that's coming up. They understand all of those things that go on and everybody that they're connected with is also in the construction industry and also interested in the same things that they're interested in.

But what they don't do is they don't consider actually when someone goes to buy a house or if a developer looks to develop a property. What their priorities are, and so the person that loves sustainability and sees all of these great things that can happen just gets really angry and really [00:46:00] infuriated with the fact that people aren't making the best decisions because they're not well informed.

And so Get more anger and frustration to them instead of making it easier for them to be informed or to make good decisions.

Uh, that's an interesting question, actually. That's so you've got Syntegra group, haven't you? Uh, so that's a, that would be a brilliant question for Alan. Cause that's, um, that's what they do. But, um, I mean, you know, I, I think from a marketing perspective and, and, you know, that's really about, uh, embracing.

And always evolving your network. So I have, I would say quite a broad, uh, network of people. And, and maybe if perhaps that's because I have lots of different clients and they're all, they're all in the property industry, but they're all sitting in slightly different [00:47:00] spaces. So I think for me, I don't get that kind of intense, you know, narrow view in the same way.

Um, I would say if you. Wanted to, to break away from that is, is to, to always be looking at ways to, to meet new people and to influence and to challenge your, your views, you know? So I think, um, finding, uh, if you, if you, if you're conscious of that, I think finding, um, always finding places to go where, you know, you're not going to know people and maybe they, maybe they're, I mean, Most of the places that I network are property industry related because I think it works for all of my clients.

Um, but yeah, trying new things, you know, and making sure that you're not always talking to the same people. And I mean, going to networking events where you don't know anyone, that's [00:48:00] an interesting experience. You know, you have to, you have to push yourself and talk to different people, um, but keeping an open mind as well and always looking to grow.

Just on that element of growth. Yes. You've gone on a big journey of growth. It sounds like in developing and finding yourself. Well, we've mentioned one book already, but are there any other? Are there any other books or any other? Uh, speakers or thought leaders that you would recommend for someone to spend some time with as they try to understand themselves a bit better or decide what values that they hold dear.

Uh, yeah, I'd have to give you the authors probably. I probably don't know them off the top of my head. Um, I have been reading a book called the power of now. Um, so I've just started reading that. So that's quite an interesting one. Um, and I've read quite a few different yoga books. So there's one called.

The Discipline of Yoga. That is an amazing [00:49:00] book. It's all just all about discipline. Um, and what other books have I read recently? Oh, um, oh, gosh, what's it called? Um,

just read it. The, uh, maybe if you talk about what it's about, maybe the title will come out. Yeah, it's, it's, um, written by this. woman who, um, is a sort of sustainability, um, focused, uh, woman who she does lots of hiking and she lives a very, very low key, um, existence. She's, um, and it's all about kind of how, how we.

How we live a more, uh, eco friendly, [00:50:00] sustainable life. So, um, uh, she talks sort of about like plastic and what things are doing to the world and, um, uh, God, I can't remember. I have to look it up. Are there any influencers or, or speakers or thought leaders that you'd recommend as well? So pretend I was younger and kind of in my.

mid thirties or early thirties and I was having a bit of a identity crisis. What would you, what would you, uh, would you suggest that I do? Yeah, I'm trying to think without, I mean, there's, there's lots of people that I sort of, um, read and follow on. On LinkedIn, um, more on the kind of marketing side, I suppose, you've got some good, um, people that I, God, I can't, I can't, like names are not coming to me at the moment.

Okay. So on the marketing side, just to shift gears on the marketing side, there were lots of organizations out there that want to tell a [00:51:00] more compelling story around sustainability than what they're doing at the moment. Do you have any tips? Can you ask that again? Sorry. There's lots of organizations out there at the moment that want to tell a more compelling story around sustainability.

Okay. Do you have any tips? Yeah, I think, um, so first of all, action is, is as important as your message. So, If you're going to say you're doing something, absolutely have the evidence to reflect that you, you're doing it and then create that into a really nice story. So I think bringing your team on the journey and how you, uh, can create impact with everyone being involved in it.

So, you know, there's so many different initiatives you can do now, aren't there around like, you know, beach cleans and like all sorts of activities. Um, so yeah, that would be my advice. So make sure that what you're saying is what you're [00:52:00] actually doing, um, and then create a really nice story about it. Um, And and use the people in your business to motivate and inspire and and take them on the journey with you.

Um, I love the fact that you've set up or about to set up a company. I'm just wondering what the name is, how someone might be able to find you, who your perfect client would be. So we are launching an agency and it's going to be called Creative Works Collective. And, um, we are for people who are, um, Have reached a certain level of success.

Um, and that's defined by what they feel success is and they want to do, they'd want to do something good with the influence that they have, you know, perhaps they have, they, they have the power to influence because they have a good [00:53:00] amount of people that listen to them and they want to work with someone to support them to.

Find where that impact could matter most, perhaps find causes that they care about, and um, then support them to communicate that in an authentic way in the right places. So those are the people that, that I would love to speak to. And, um, yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. Definitely. Naomi, I've loved speaking with you.

I've enjoyed listening to your story, your wisdom, and I'm excited to see your company, not just start, but grow. Thank you so much. It's been lovely.