Amit Patel: 0:00

I'm Amitthal. I'm one of the senior environmental managers at Wimburg. There's two things that I was interested in so artificial intelligence and sustainability. And the reason I didn't do AI was I sort of ditched that and then I went into the environment and sustainability.

Darren Evans: 0:15

So how was things then kind of growing up for you? At what point did you decide? Do you know, I quite like the environment.

Amit Patel: 0:20

I think it must have been. When I was doing my, I was like, right, I'm going to do the non-traditional Indian thing. Not do IT, not do accounting, not do I'd become a doctor or a dentist. Go, sort of proper left field. There's quite a lot of things that I've probably done that has had an impact. F***. Collaboration is keyed for success. Go with your heart's desire, Don't worry about it. If you don't do it you'll regret it. So just go with it and try it. If you don't try it, you won't know.

Darren Evans: 0:47

So the myth for me is Hi and welcome to this next series of Thriving Construction with Darren Evans. Today our guest is Amit Patel. Amit, thank you for coming on the podcast. Honour to have you here.

Amit Patel: 1:04

No, thank you for having me, darren, looking forward to it.

Darren Evans: 1:08

Me too. So there's lots of people here that are listening and are watching that have either never heard of you before or have never seen you. So can you just help the listeners understand what it is that you do and who you work for?

Amit Patel: 1:22

So I'm Amit Patel. I'm one of the senior environmental managers at Wynvick, so predominantly focusing on the environmental side for the business. So compliance, bids, tenders, making sure how we can enhance where we work and, at the same time, making sure we don't impact the local area as well. So that's in a nutshell of what I do. The list is endless.

Darren Evans: 1:56

So this is your job title and then this is actually what you do. The two don't always cooperate in correspondence.

Amit Patel: 2:02

No, they don't.

Darren Evans: 2:03

How did you get into the industry then?

Amit Patel: 2:07

So I did an undergrad at university, got my degree and everything, but before that I was looking at what the market was and there's two things that I was interested, so artificial intelligence and sustainability. And back then the boom wasn't there, it just started the whole environment and sustainability agenda.

Darren Evans: 2:35

So just time wise, just for those people that are listening, I can't see or make a guess how old you are, so AI for most people is kind of a very recent thing. So you're going back when you're looking at this interest that you got at what stage was this?

Amit Patel: 2:50

16 years ago 16, 17 years ago.

Darren Evans: 2:55

So that's going to be a revelation for lots of people that AI was a thing 16 years ago.

Amit Patel: 3:00

Yeah, it was there, and the reason I didn't do AI was I had to do further maths and I hated further maths. I just hate maths full stop. So I sort of ditched that and then I went into the environment and sustainability.

Darren Evans: 3:17

And then, even 10 years ago, was very much in his infancy, wasn't?

Amit Patel: 3:22

it, it was.

Darren Evans: 3:23

And it sounds bizarre to say that doesn't it, it is, it is.

Amit Patel: 3:27

It is very bizarre because everyone thinks it's the new sort of trend, but it wasn't. The buzzword was I can't even remember the buzzword was something different as opposed to now, which is ESG. It was corporate social responsibility back in the days and environment sort of sat within that. And now it's sustainability and now it's more than ESG. So environment and social governance. So it's evolved over the years. So, yeah, when I was at university it was just coming through and then when I graduated I applied for God knows how many jobs and everything and they all said you need a masters. So I did my undergrad in Manchester, came to London, did my masters, open a lot more doors, and then I started a company called a consultancy, mwh, which I think is called Stantec now for three years.

Amit Patel: 4:27

And then no, that was High Wiccan, so not far from London. So because I specialised my masters in contaminated land and so I worked on former gasworks and all sorts doing some investigations and then recession hit, got made redundant. I sat around for a couple of months because I've got some money.

Darren Evans: 4:55

Oh you, ok, you got a redundancy payoff. Yeah, I got a redundancy payoff. Yeah, how did that land, with you, though, being made redundant Lots of people?

Amit Patel: 5:01

I remember the director got redundant and they've kept it streamlined. And it was quite ironic because when I started at Gallifords I met him on one of the water frameworks that we were working on. So it was like quite interesting sort of meeting him and just having a conversation, so how I got here. So then, yeah, I must have applied for a couple of months and then I got an interview with Galliford Try and then, if I said so so Galliford Try now called.

Amit Patel: 5:37

Countryside. So yeah, so what happened was Galliford Try. I was up until the demerger. When the demerger happened, I specifically looked after just the partnership side which was obviously bought by Bovis and rebadged as, renamed as Vistri Partnerships, which I think now is called Countryside.

Darren Evans: 6:00

Partnerships. Yeah, that lasted for long, didn't it? Vistri didn't really last for long.

Amit Patel: 6:04

No, vistri didn't. I think they've still got the Vistri group, but yeah, now Vistri Partnerships. So I think I did. I think Gallifords must have been nine years and a year and a half to two years at.

Darren Evans: 6:15

Vistri.

Amit Patel: 6:17

And yeah, coming to two years here at Wimvik.

Darren Evans: 6:22

Good good.

Amit Patel: 6:22

And things are going well for you at Wimvik.

Darren Evans: 6:24

Yeah.

Amit Patel: 6:26

I enjoy what I do. I enjoy people I work with, which is the main thing for me.

Darren Evans: 6:31

What is it about Wimvik that stands out to you as the?

Amit Patel: 6:34

organisation. It's very family-oriented, which is family-owned, isn't? It. It's family-owned. Yeah, so it's family-owned. Their foreown is and, yeah, it's a good place to work with. You know people very close knit and things do get resolved in an efficient manner if there are concerns, so that's always quite reassuring. That's good. Yeah, I've heard lots of good things about Wimwick. That's positive. That is positive.

Darren Evans: 7:07

If I've heard good things, then it must be true. It is isn't it?

Amit Patel: 7:10

It is a great place to work. It is a great place to work, that's good.

Darren Evans: 7:14

Well, let's go back to kind of pre-university. What was life like for you growing up? It was good. Were you brought up in London.

Amit Patel: 7:23

Yeah, I lived in Well where I live, my parents live in Wembley and I literally live around the corner from them, so being grown up there, so for me not living in London, every time someone says Wembley I just think of the stadium that's exactly where I live.

Darren Evans: 7:44

Not far from there 10, 15 minute walk from the stadium and every time I go to Wembley to watch any event there, and sometimes concerts or football. I like football a lot, but when I go to watch it I think the residents must just absolutely pull their hair out. The whole, just the noise, the volume, the litter, the police around. What was it like living in Wembley?

Amit Patel: 8:07

Over the years it's evolved the whole Wembley, the regeneration of the whole area and what they've done With the retail park and then Retail park, the flats and the box parks and everything else. They spent a lot of time and money regenerating the whole area and obviously with the stadium, the rebuild of it, they've enhanced that experience for whoever goes there, whether it be for football, concerts or anything else.

Amit Patel: 8:39

And I think, as part of that, they've built the infrastructure and the people around it to make sure. Right, let's clear up litters noise. I think there's a certain cut off point of when you can't make any noise dispersing all the fans or whatever the amount of police, and I think it's open the whole area up. So, yes, it's not as bad.

Amit Patel: 9:06

It's a benefit. Yeah, and where I live you've got to have a pass to park on the road on event days. Otherwise, usually it's free day to day, but on events you've got to have a pass, otherwise you get a ticket.

Darren Evans: 9:26

So growing up in Wembley, did that lead you to you know around football? Did you play football? Was life mainly outdoors for you?

Amit Patel: 9:34

It was a bit of both. Outdoors, my mum used to just send me on trips and that because she couldn't drive. So she took school trips and made me do gymnastics, swimming and everything. And then, as I growled on, my dad took me to the shop. So I'd help him at the shop doing the Sunday, saturday and Sunday newspapers, putting the leaflets in and everything else, which I hate it. But it's made me appreciate value for money and also I would speak to people, different people, every day, converse with them. It helped me build my confidence and how I talk and approach people. So, yes, as much as I hated it, it's given me life skills to be where I am at the moment and to be the person I am. So I can't forget those childhood moments. It was always quite good.

Amit Patel: 10:42

So your dad was a shop owner? No, was a shop owner, yeah, and is it kind of a news agent, convenience, convenience store? But it wasn't a corner shop. Not the stereotype, as most people think, is Indians have a corner shop. This one wasn't. It was in Malibu and High Street, so in central London.

Amit Patel: 11:03

So we would take the car in the morning, lift the bundles of the newspapers that would come, cut the ties off, get all the cuts and bruises and everything that goes with it, the black ink and then I would do once I'd done all of that, I would go downstairs, sit down, do work. If I had homework to do and there was a bookshop downstairs, so I would go pick a book and read one of the books and that, and then, when it was time to go, right, let's go. And then towards the latter, when I got a bit more older, I just used to tell my dad you go home, I'll run it with the staff. So he gave he had he had not respect respect is the wrong word trust in me to run it so he could do what he want Go relax or go to a function or something that he had to go to. That would have been built up over time, though, right, yeah, that was always over time.

Darren Evans: 12:03

So, parents, did they come across to the UK from India? Yes, was it your?

Amit Patel: 12:09

grandparents? No. So my mum was born in Fiji and when the coup happened the family moved to India. So my dad, when the coup happened in Africa, moved to India and then they both moved to the UK and they got a family intro and then they got married.

Darren Evans: 12:32

So your parents' ancestry, so your mum's ancestry, is Fijian. Yes, and your father's ancestry is From Africa.

Amit Patel: 12:40

Yeah, I know, and I'm trying to figure he's going to shoot me for this, narobi.

Darren Evans: 12:45

Narobi, okay, okay, okay, great, and have you been to either?

Amit Patel: 12:51

countries. Yes, I've been to Fiji, so I went to go see the plaque that my mum's Great here's her grandfather put up. So there's a little plaque which has the family name and this plaque was a memorial built under his name. So it was quite interesting to see, and went to see the hospital that my mum was born at as well, so it was quite good.

Darren Evans: 13:21

You've got rich ancestry. This is fantastic. How does that show up, then, in your family dynamic? How does it show up in the food that you eat?

Amit Patel: 13:30

No, do you know what? I love food as well. You can't go wrong with it. So both my mum and dad are vegetarian. They're not meat eaters. I enjoy meat, I enjoy seafood, but it's traditional Indian cuisine. There's no sort of the only thing I take that back. The only Fijian food is they call it a dalor. Yeah, I forgot what you call. I think it's called kasava. And there's another root vegetable as well, and my mum's brother always gets it, and when he gets it he says look, come here, have it with a bit of Worcestershire sauce and an egg. And it's so nice I've got any contacts in Fiji.

Darren Evans: 14:20

But a very, very good friend of mine is from Samoa and there's something that they do in Samoa which is called an umu, and it's a way and a method of cooking. What they do is they get loads and loads of stones and they put them around this big circle. They put loads of wood and fire accelerants on top.

Darren Evans: 14:42

Once the fires kind of died down somewhat, they then get the food to its vegetables and meats or fish or whatever it is that they're cooking. Put that on the top of the stones, then cover it with cardboard and with almost like the corrugated iron roofing. Yeah, yeah, put that on the top, leave that on there for probably about two to three hours and then, when that comes off, are so good, it's so, so good.

Darren Evans: 15:08

It's just, it's wonderful. I love how the islanders just make their food. Then they come together as family. That kind of sense of community over there is still alive and kicking and loving.

Amit Patel: 15:21

No, I love food, I just love food. That's how for me and my wife is. We love food, we like going different places and trying new things. So we actually went to Fiji for me and my wife for our honeymoon Okay, and we did our registry out in Fiji. Yeah, we did it on one of the islands out there, castaway Island.

Darren Evans: 15:44

Oh, was it okay.

Amit Patel: 15:45

Yeah, not the Castaway movie island which we went to go see, which was filmed out in Fiji, so you can see the little ball with Wilson in the cave and saying help on the sand. But this was another Castaway Island where we got our registry done. So it was quite good with the locals and trying the local food on the islands, because it's all literary fish, so it was really nice.

Darren Evans: 16:13

So how was things then kind of growing up for you? At what point did you decide? Do you know, I quite like the environment. The physical environment is important to me.

Amit Patel: 16:23

I think it must have been when I was doing my A level. So one of my A levels that I did was geography and just learning about the earth and human interactions, what we do, physical geography and the just that sort of opened it up for me and I was like this looks quite interesting. And then when I had to think about where I wanted to go, I was like, right, I'm going to do the non-traditional Indian thing. Not do IT, not do accounting, not do become a doctor or dentist. Go sort of proper left field. What was your?

Darren Evans: 16:59

parents' reactions about, because the stereotypical Indian, as I understand it, is that parents are very clear in their mind of what success looks like for their children. Yeah, yeah.

Amit Patel: 17:11

And then that's the thing it was, convincing them like, look, I want to do this, I want to do this. I don't enjoy being an accountant, I don't want to do doctor dentists because I didn't take the right A levels. I want to do something a bit more, not the norm. And they're like fine, they supported me with the decision. So much. Did it take you long to persuade them? Probably I've just gone that far along. It probably did a lot of to and fro and then, speaking to the cousins and everything, oh, as a family affair.

Amit Patel: 17:43

Yeah, so I would have to, like my cousins would like what do you want to do and this and that? And most of my cousins are all accountants or they've done finance related degrees and that or is probably not the norm.

Darren Evans: 18:03

So where do you think that comes from in terms of that stereotype? Why do you think it is that typically people from India when they've come to the UK, why they've kind of gone into those types of roles. Why is that?

Amit Patel: 18:16

scene as successful. I think it's because the hardship that, like my parents, have gone through like going through like hard labor work, like news running in news agents wasn't easy. It's very backbreaking and the sort of mentality is role. You can do a job where you don't have to do that. We've done all of that to and sacrificed so you don't have to do that. Do a job that gives you that flexibility that you don't have to do backbreaking stuff, that you can go on holidays. I probably went on one or two holidays with my parents as a child, otherwise it will be right.

Amit Patel: 18:55

You go into India, go see your, your cousin there, but you go with the air hostess by yourself. Okay, okay, I would have done that. Yeah, so it was a young child. How old were you then? 10, 11 teens, maybe.

Darren Evans: 19:10

Do you see it as an adventure?

Amit Patel: 19:11

Yeah, I loved it. I loved it, no more than that no more than that, got a TV to myself. Exactly the air hostess would take the passport from me and made sure I got to the other side safely. So it was quite good.

Darren Evans: 19:25

I mean, I guess, the downside of that then, just thinking from my point of view, with my children. So we've spent quite a bit of time doing holidays in various places and we have got fantastic memories as a family going away and eating out together and playing in pools or in the sea or on the beach, or just going to museums or to aquariums and all those different things and even like car journeys, places and just loads and loads of memory surrounding that. So I guess from your parents point of view, it sounds like they wanted you to have those types of experiences with your kids, because it must have been hard for them not to be able to go off and have fun.

Amit Patel: 20:13

Yeah, I think it was difficult back in those days. The value for money was much more expensive as opposed to what it is now.

Amit Patel: 20:24

Yeah, so it wasn't the norm. Dad was always at the shop, mum would be like doing all these activities and if it was holiday then it would be Mum that would come. Dad never came. I think it's only up until recently that I've probably taken Dad on holiday because he's retired, and I'm trying to organise a family one with Mum and Dad, with our kids, to go as a family on holiday. But they're at an age I think mum and dad 71, no 70, mum 69, so they're not spring chickens. So I've got to think somewhere quite close so they can have memories of a holiday. They see my two daughters every other day, or every day, depending on when they want to see them off to school and that. So they build their memories. So you're bucking the trends.

Darren Evans: 21:28

Now You're thinking I'm going to go and do something different. You've convinced your parents. You've spoken to cousins and other family members. You've got your support. Why the environment?

Amit Patel: 21:42

I think, as I said earlier, I think it was like one of the up and coming trends and I was like, well, it looks interesting. I did my research. I was like, yeah, this course looks quite good, I'm going to enjoy it. So I took the punt. I knew there were jobs out there, so I took a dive and went for it. I just went for it, did my undergrad and then, yeah, when you apply for the jobs and when they say you need experience, it was back in my head Can't you get me experience? How?

Darren Evans: 22:23

am I going to get experience unless someone gives me experience?

Amit Patel: 22:26

And that's the thing. Yeah, exactly, and that's what I always found it was that either don't have experience or you get a masters. So I said, right, I'm going to bite the bullet, I'll do another year, come back home and do my masters. And then the masters have done that, and then opened that, opened up the doors. That opened the doors. Yeah, that opened a lot of doors.

Darren Evans: 22:55

And then so, since you've been in the industry working, what types of things have you been involved with that you're like you know what this is really amazing impact. I'm really glad that I've been part of this.

Amit Patel: 23:08

There's quite a lot of things that I've probably done that has had an impact. I'm on a leadership course at the moment. I'm a current employer and it's a different group to my normal group that I'm in and we were just talking. I met this individual for probably five, six years and he sort of said I remember you. I was like okay, where do you remember me from? I was like I remember from that Gallifrey try job that we had in Solihull. I was like okay, I was like what, what do you remember? He's like you told me about cable tie and putting it under the, the taps, the percussion taps stop mall to being wasted and that sort of resonated to me. I was like, oh, I've had, I've had an impact on someone and I've had a few of those moments across my career. Project wise, there's so many working with the local residents, enhancing the biodiversity where we can, effecting water courses, trying new technology and all of that is probably the various things that I've probably done and Gallifrey's and currently here at Wimvik.

Darren Evans: 24:36

So you can have impact in lots of different ways in people's lives and within sustainability or within construction or within anything. But is there is there anything specifically about biodiversity, that really kind of lights your fire.

Amit Patel: 24:52

I think biodiversity is one of those that, yes, you can enhance nature and bring all of that, but also individuals, people. If there's like greenery and all that, it's a nice tranquil place that people can just go and just switch off. That's what I try to find like biodiversity. Again, yeah, you can put bird boxes on, but it's a bit more than that. It's like wild flower seeding or having like a whole open area country park dedicated to it.

Darren Evans: 25:30

So you're talking something greater here than just ticking a box to say, yeah, I've done this biodiversity box ticked. You're talking about a different way of seeing nature Exactly.

Amit Patel: 25:41

It's like mental health and all of that type of stuff, because nature can help all of that. It can even depending on how you develop an area you can have like kids play area that has biodiversity enhanced within it in some of the activities, the mounds that might be there, with the seeds that might be there. So it's how you Placemaking is probably the right terminology of how you deal. Placemaking and biodiversity probably go hand in hand Quite well, and I think one project that I went to see Was the one in elephant and castle. They've done like this whole nice walkway, yeah, which has got everything biodiversity, loads of trees, seating area and they've got this tree house which is literally a tree, and they've sort of worked within the tree root protection zone and everything and made it like a Communal area for the residents.

Amit Patel: 26:51

So you can actually go in and you can use the facilities, the cafe and everything else. So it was really nice and they were just walking from elephant and castle station to this area. You've got all the trees that are probably retained from the existing area and it just felt peaceful and tranquil. Even though you've got like Tower cranes all around the area. It felt really peaceful and tranquil.

Darren Evans: 27:20

So you take that biodiversity net gain but you actually make a difference to the person as well, right person as well. And that's just having me think about Concept that I learned by probably about four, five years ago, which is biofilia.

Amit Patel: 27:36

Okay, but a biofilia?

Darren Evans: 27:37

No, I'm never come across I feel is the study of the connection between human well-being and nature. So when we look outside at something and it's man-made so that could be a man-made Wooden fence panel or a concrete thing or another building or a car or whatever we have a different reaction. Then if we look outside and look at something which is live and which something has been created naturally a plant or a bird, or maybe even a fish in a fish tank that that has a direct impact on our mental state, our sense of well-being and also our ability to learn. You hadn't heard of that before. No, I had it, but Like a you know, and to me that makes sense. It's like, well, yeah, when I'm, when I'm with my dog, I love my dog, dogs great, yeah, I love you know. When I'm, when I'm in my garden, when I've, I Say to my kids all the time I'm like I would love to Live in a place where I've just got acres and acres of land. Keeper, keep a couple of animals. I would be in my element there.

Amit Patel: 28:55

Put me in a tower block and give me a balcony, not really interested in that I probably agree with you there, because I like garden, I Love gardening and every year I drove grow tomatoes, cauliflower, courgettes. In the garden I've got a strawberry patch. I love it.

Darren Evans: 29:13

It's great, isn't it, that sense of Connecting with, with another living thing.

Amit Patel: 29:18

I agree. And then I get my daughter. She knows every year, my oldest daughter, she was like, right, strawberry picking, yep, let's go. And she likes picking tomatoes on that. So it's bringing her along the journey as well and being like, look, this was nature has to offer and she loves it. She loves it. And she was like, daddy, is that a yellow tomorrow? I'm like, yes, that is the yellow tomorrow. So she, she enjoys it, whereas if it was a tower block on a balcony, it's difficult, you can't do these sort of things. So, oh, for me, garden is it's always a must.

Darren Evans: 29:54

Growing up. I lived in a tower block growing up and when we moved from a tower block to a house that had a small garden, I absolutely loved it. Yeah, specifically, I think, because the the garden was really, really overgrown. So to me it was like a jungle, yeah, like you know, jumanji even before Jumanji kind of came out, it was. It was like a whole adventure experience. So one of the things I'm wondering now is where you see the future of biodiversity.

Amit Patel: 30:26

I think biodiversity is it's gonna take off. I think it's just waiting for the sign off. I think is it due next year To come into play. But when you say it's gonna take off, what do you mean by that? More and more councils Are gonna ask for it, even though when it becomes proper legislation. But yeah, to be fair, even now most of the councils are already asking for it. But it's what percentage? I think the minimum is 10%.

Darren Evans: 30:57

So what does it mean at the moment to break this down for people that really don't understand. So, at the moment, what, what is the?

Amit Patel: 31:02

current state of play. So I think the current state of play at the moment is for small developments. There is Calculations that you have to do using the deferred metrics I think it's version four at the moment and that does a calculation and you've got to do a betterment of at least minimum 10%. But I think the government is for big, large scale projects, are looking at increasing that potentially, but some percentage yeah, I think it's probably to whatever the council want.

Amit Patel: 31:38

Okay, so, yeah, can drive this their council, yeah, rather than them setting a minimum. But I think the minimum is always been 10% betterment. But some councils haven't got that as a policy within their documentation. So some new planning that I've seen come through you're like well, there's no biodiversity net gain and when I question the plan is the planning consultant sorry, the council haven't got that as part of their standard policies, but more and more of them are asking for it.

Darren Evans: 32:17

And so if there was someone listening from a local authority that maybe had the ability to put that into their policy, what would you say to them? Go for it. Why?

Amit Patel: 32:28

Because it's like castle for them, and that surely it's it's hassle for them, but then at the same time they've got a. If they do it now, they don't have to worry about it when it comes to be legal requirement next year when the government rubber stamp it. So if they stop from now and get it, they're not chasing their tails. So would recommend doing it. What difference would it make to them and their local authority? Make more enhancements. Green corridors attract different types of wildlife, whether it be birds, bats or even mammals.

Darren Evans: 33:03

When you say mammals, I'm thinking foxes.

Amit Patel: 33:05

Now I'm thinking more dormice and dormouse water voles, all of those type of things, and also your great crested newts and those basic in dangerous species, and that's what you want to encourage. Now I don't want foxes, but yeah, foxes, you've got to manage them as well.

Darren Evans: 33:29

Well, I'm. One of the things I think would be good to do now is to go to the demolition zone where we discuss a myth or something that exists. That's not true. You clear up for us and set us back on the right path. You ready? Yeah, let's do it. Ok, we are back. This is a very I would I would describe this is cute Green tower with what looks like to be a roof on the top effectively is it's.

Amit Patel: 34:04

I've gone with a whole biodiversity net gain and green and green space and I've put the the hut as like a little tree.

Darren Evans: 34:13

It's like a tree so what does it represent? What's the, what's the myth that you're looking to clear up?

Amit Patel: 34:17

so the myth for me is biodiversity net gain is not a soul, individual or companies responsibility. That's sort of my myth.

Darren Evans: 34:29

So the myth is, then, that people believe that it's just one area, just one thing one person or one company.

Amit Patel: 34:37

Yeah, that's how it's done. No, it's not. It's from buying the land right through, designing it, building it and then obviously maintaining it thereafter as part of the habitat requirement. So it's a collaborative approach. It's not one person, it's the whole chain, from start to finish, and you've got all the different people involved, like the regulators and the council involved in it. So it is a collaborative approach. So that's kind of my myth busting.

Darren Evans: 35:16

Good, good. So it really is not just a tick box no, it's not, it's not before Goes through and then continues afterwards exactly good. Well, when you're ready, in whatever manner you choose, you can now bust down that myth. Just grab it and chuck it. Love it simple way. It's been great having you on the on the show today. Really appreciate your time and your wisdom. Love listening to you. Thank you very much, darren, for having me Just before you go is there anything that you wanted to cover off that we haven't covered off?

Amit Patel: 36:01

I think the last point for me is collaboration. Yeah, collaboration is key. Whatever you do, collaboration is keyed for success. Try doing it set on your own. It's going to be difficult, but work with people. You'll get to the same goal quicker and you can nurture and help and guide people through the way.

Darren Evans: 36:28

One last question. Tricky question, go for it. What one piece of advice would you give to someone listening or watching this that will make a significant impact in their life?

Amit Patel: 36:41

Go with your heart's desire and might to go something like what I did and go real left field. Don't worry about it. If you don't do it you'll regret it. So just go with it and try it. If you don't try, you won't know.

Darren Evans: 36:59

Thank you, it's been a pleasure. Thank you, darren. Thanks. I'd like you to do me a favor, and I don't mean here just to ask you to subscribe and to follow, but what I'd really like you to do is to share this podcast with as many people as you think would benefit from it. I would love to maintain the quality of people that are joining me on this podcast, and so, in order for me to do that, I really need your help. It could be somebody that's looking to get into an industry, but they're not quite sure what industry they want to get into. Maybe it's a teenager that is just finishing their GCSEs or starting A levels. Maybe it's somebody that's doing an English degree at university, but it's not quite sure what you're doing, but it's not quite sure what they want to do with that degree. So I invite you just to share this podcast with as many people that you know so that we can grow this community, so that we can maintain the quality, engaging conversations that we're having together. Thank you for your help.